reddwarfslash | wow, am I behind (and just generally being a tit)

wow, am I behind (and just generally being a tit)

Well, maybe not a tit, so much ... mainly just clueless about behind-the-scenes, fandom, etc. etc.

It all started when I wanted to see if there was any review of the second RDX episode taping; someone posted a link a few weeks ago to the G&T episode one taping, and, sure enough, I found the report on Ep. 2. (No real spoilers, BTW.) I liked reading about how they've filmed something referenced on RD before but never filmed (though apparently my memory is shit enough that, unlike some of the commenters, I haven't the foggiest clue what it could actually BE). I also enjoyed the idea of the cast interacting with the audience before filming and "not skulking in the shadows like on some sitcoms." But really, can we imagine any of these guys skulking anywhere? Also, the in the comments, the discussion about Rimmer's relative cuntiness in RDX characterization (boy, you UKers really seem to love using that word, LOL).

Anyway - I started navigating around on the G&T site, reading other stuff, especially reviews. Holy coats, there's really a lot of facts I don't know about this show, its production, background stories (no, I'd never heard Doug and Rob say that Rimmer and Lister were based on themselves, but I am not one whit surprised - I would say it also lends some credence to the remark someone made about Rimmer/Lister not "sounding" as good in the writing after Rob left, except that I have always liked their interaction, yes, even in S8), and the like. A DVD set called "The Bodysnatcher Collection" is definitely something it sounds like I should get my hands on, but I'd never even heard of it before today; apparently it has episode/extras commentaries with Rob and Doug, brought together again well after their professional split to do this. (Which was nice to read, since while it will realistically probably never happen, lends a sliver of hope that maybe Rob could involve himself once more with RD writing at some future point.)

I'd forgotten what it was like to know so much within a fandom (not that I do, here, but seeing others who do, I mean); I remember being in the TNG fandom just a few years after the series started in 1987, and learning all I could and listening to fan and actor stories and the like. (And for those of you who were in a fandom pre-Internet, a sidebar: Isn't it amazing how much we fans of something were able to find out and hear without a Google go-to or email? That's what you call dedication - or insanity.)

All right, there's my pointless rambly post; hey, at least I gave you a link to a taping review! Anyone else as clueless as me, or do you all know everything, LOL? Thoughts generally?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I was the one who posted that link. :) I found Ganymede and Titan a few months ago. I thought I was a fan, but I have nothing on these guys and girls. The dedicated, in-depth reviews are probably the best thing about the site. Well, that and the generous community spirit which led to me getting a spare ticket from one of them. I am forever grateful. :D

I'm not quite so keen on the endemic use of the C-word, which believe me is just as offensive over here as I assume it is in the US. I think it's some kind of in-joke. I'm used to it now. *Shrug*

I own the "Bodysnatcher Collection" and it's well worth getting. Sadly it was only released in the UK and Australia, but you can watch it if you have a multi-region DVD player. There are currently availability issues though: http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/forum/messages.cfm?threadid=8DC0A150-BE25-29D8-F44BAD04A521B818

Why is it so great? Proper, in-depth documentaries for Series 1 and 2 (they couldn't afford to do that originally), the first three series remastered with commentary on six episodes by Naylor and Ed Bye, a full-length storyboard episode of a "lost" ep from Season 1 performed by Chris and with an audio commentary by Rob Grant(!) and Doug Naylor, who sound perfectly friendly to each other and completed the script especially for this collection. *Deep breath* Chris also performs the 10 minutes or so of the unfinished "Dad" episode (which couldn't really be much slashier) and Rob and Doug commentate on that too. :D I could go on, but you get the point.

Regarding Rimmer's gittiness in Season X, they were referring to the episode I watched. It's not really that bad and is definitely in character. More importantly, it's not directed at his shipmates. Someone who watched the second episode complained he was being too nice, so I don't know what direction Doug's going in. Mid-series Rimmer, at a guess.

Yeah, I checked eBay for that DVD set - holy frijoles! I'll be fucked if I'm paying $300 for that! I am actually working on trying to save for a trip to the UK later this year or next if they film another series instead, and all my pennies go toward THAT.

Now "Dad" is on one of the seasons in the extras (as is the Cat episode never filmed), and I agree about that slash factor. Very nice. I think I really would probably just like to have this set (affordably, mind) for the Doug and Rob commentaries. Barring that, it would be lovely if someone had transcribed them somewhere to be read. You know of any such place? :-)

Someday, I really want some outside source, like a UK journalist in the know, to write a definitive biography of the show and the participants involved. It's a project I would enjoy doing myself (seeing as I am a journalist), but I don't live there and don't have the free time to devote to cultivating/contacting the proper interview sources, sadly. An Erik Larsen-type book would be fabulous.

(I'm not worried about Rimmer's git-ness. I trust Chris pretty much completely to do whatever he can with the material he's presented to make it palatable.)

I don't know of anywhere the Rob/Doug commentaries have been transcribed to, sadly. If it's not on G&T (I've been through most of their archives), then it probably doesn't exist.

I suppose I could give it a go myself, but without the episodes in front of you - the lost "Bodysnatcher" ep, the original version of "The End", "Dad" and a few short script extracts, you'd only get half the picture. Or did you mean Doug and Ed Bye on the regular eps?

I own an old episode guide covering Series 1 - 8. It's good for basic info, but not entirely accurate. The reason given for dropping "Dad" was that Rob and Doug felt it was danger of becoming sexist and homophobic. When you actually watch it it's not. The reason, it turns out, was more that Doug was a father already, but Rob wasn't at the time and just couldn't get up the interest to do the script justice. *Lol*

Gee, it would've been so hard to find a woman who'd given birth to find out more about how that feels and works and stuff, to finish the script. ;-)

Really, with Rob and Doug, I just want to know what they thought while working up some of their episodes (well, I'd take ALL, but I presume they don't comment on every episode?). I'm a fan, I'm a writer, it's interesting stuff.

Rob and Doug commentate on the original version of "The End" (nowhere near as good as the broadcast version), "Bodysnatcher", "Dad" and a couple more brief script extracts that never made it into the show. Also on a "Can't Believe How Embarrassing This Is" daytime TV show they appeared on to promote the show in 1991. *Lol* I think Rob's also in the docs.

Doug and director Ed Bye commentate on "Me2", "Kryten", "Better Than Life", "Polymorph" and "Bodyswap".

When I have time, I'll summarise the interesting, writing and character-related stuff. :)

That would be awesome, and definitely merits its own separate post, IMO!

Clearly Doug wasn't much better at writing a female perspective alone, judging by S8 (LOL - girls like clothes! And have breasts! And menstruate!)

I agree about Season 8 being pretty feeble at presenting a female perspective, but Doug's writing was definitely at its weakest point then (and he had co-writers who obviously weren't anywhere near as good as Rob). But to be fair, the characterisation was off in general e.g. Lister suddenly became the thick, boozed up lad people who've never watched RD assume he is, when we all know there's a lot more to him than that.

I think that Doug did prove in "Last Human" that he's capable of writing a sympathetic Kochanski, but maybe only in novel format.

I've thought for years now that Always should incorporate that clip with the "Have A Good Period" banner that Lister put up into its ads by the same theme - ever since the company came out with that moronic ad campaign, LOL.

(no subject)

janamelie.livejournal.com - 2012-01-04 23:03 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

veronica-rich.livejournal.com - 2012-01-04 23:14 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

janamelie.livejournal.com - 2012-01-04 23:27 (UTC) - Expand

i'll be with my fellow sisters, doing it for ourselves

slinkhard.livejournal.com - 2012-01-05 09:57 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

veronica-rich.livejournal.com - 2012-01-05 12:24 (UTC) - Expand

Now "Dad" is on one of the seasons in the extras
Which one? I don't remember seeing it. I have all 8 series. ???

Actually I'm pretty sure it's only on the "Bodysnatcher Collection". But it was posted to this site back in 2007 when the DVD came out; that's probably what Veronica's thinking of.

Ah. Maybe I'll have to go search for it on here. I really would like to see it. :-)

Sure, that's possible. Is it on YouTube? Could be that's where I watched it. I've also seen the Cat ep, but that wasn't Bodysnatchers, was it? If not, I haven't seen that one.

Yes, I think it was a Youtube clip. The Cat ep's on the Series 7 DVD.

More importantly, it's not directed at his shipmates. Someone who watched the second episode complained he was being too nice, so I don't know what direction Doug's going in. Mid-series Rimmer, at a guess.

Well, he wasn't exactly mean to the guys in BtE either, so maybe Doug is just taking off from that point. Maybe he's trying to give us a kinder, gentler, more grown up Rimmer.

It may be a case of "OK to his shipmates, smeghead to anyone else". Katerina would agree, even if it was only a hallucination. ;)

*snerk*

Katerina deserved it though. She was going to shut him off, shoot him into space , and then detonate him with nuclear fusion.

Well, technically, through Katrina, he was going to do it to himself ... they were all going to do it to him ... however you want to view it. ;-)

I don't care. It was the principle of it.

Hell, she could have been his self-loathing manifesting it's self again.

(no subject)

veronica-rich.livejournal.com - 2012-01-04 22:42 (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

bayliss.livejournal.com - 2012-01-05 01:26 (UTC) - Expand

Oh, I agree. Leaving aside the fact it wasn't real and she herself had just said there's nothing ethically wrong with killing a hologram, thereby basically giving him permission, as far as he was concerned it was either her or him.

The smirk afterwards was just Rimmer being Rimmer. :)

(no subject)

bayliss.livejournal.com - 2012-01-04 00:09 (UTC) - Expand

I was rewatching S1 the other night and not having seen it for a while, I was surprised to remember just how much of an asshole Rimmer is at that point. I think there are some fans who want him to stay that way forever because it's a laugh (dare I say it - some male fans? Is that sexist of me? This is the gender that made "Jackass" a hit, after all, LOL). It's just one aspect of his personality, and we've seen it doesn't preclude him being understanding or even kind when he feels like it.

Or, you know, maybe it's just that Rimmer was Rob's creation and Doug was the "kind" influence on the character? I read far too much at G&T last night in case you couldn't tell ....

They have said, it's in The Official Red Dwarf Companion that part of Rimmer was based on a Prefect that they had at their school. Maybe more of the Snmegheadness that they gave him was from Rob.

I mean in the book Backwards Rob isn't very nice at all to Rimmer. That alone makes me think that Rob Grant hates Rimmer. Maybe Doug likes the character better so he gave him more depth. Being a smeghead alone does not make a good character. They forget the amount of character development they did to Rimmer in in all 8 series. He's not as bad as he used to be.

Edited 2012-01-03 21:31 (UTC)

But actually, not being nice to a character doesn't mean you as a writer hate them. I'm looking more at the sheer amount of time Rob spent on the idea of Rimmer, fleshing out both versions, presenting opposing POVs. I'd be very surprised to find out he doesn't actually love the character of Rimmer quite a lot (or did, past tense, when writing him), in the sense of enjoying working with Arnie J. on the page.

I think various people have pointed out on the DVDs that Rimmer had to develop as a character or the show wouldn't have lasted. It starts to become noticeable in "Me2" when the duplicate points out that he's already different to when he was alive and attributes it to Lister's influence.

I'm telling you, there's no way the character can't grow and last that long. The POTC writers have tried to keep Jack Sparrow static for almost 10 years and 4 movies, and IMO it just doesn't work as well as letting the guy evolve over time. (Well, I'm not telling you, that's just a figure of speech of course. :-) )

Edited 2012-01-04 22:40 (UTC)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only