reddwarfslash | wow, am I behind (and just generally being a tit)

Well, maybe not a tit, so much ... mainly just clueless about behind-the-scenes, fandom, etc. etc.

It all started when I wanted to see if there was any review of the second RDX episode taping; someone posted a link a few weeks ago to the G&T episode one taping, and, sure enough, I found the report on Ep. 2. (No real spoilers, BTW.) I liked reading about how they've filmed something referenced on RD before but never filmed (though apparently my memory is shit enough that, unlike some of the commenters, I haven't the foggiest clue what it could actually BE). I also enjoyed the idea of the cast interacting with the audience before filming and "not skulking in the shadows like on some sitcoms." But really, can we imagine any of these guys skulking anywhere? Also, the in the comments, the discussion about Rimmer's relative cuntiness in RDX characterization (boy, you UKers really seem to love using that word, LOL).

Anyway - I started navigating around on the G&T site, reading other stuff, especially reviews. Holy coats, there's really a lot of facts I don't know about this show, its production, background stories (no, I'd never heard Doug and Rob say that Rimmer and Lister were based on themselves, but I am not one whit surprised - I would say it also lends some credence to the remark someone made about Rimmer/Lister not "sounding" as good in the writing after Rob left, except that I have always liked their interaction, yes, even in S8), and the like. A DVD set called "The Bodysnatcher Collection" is definitely something it sounds like I should get my hands on, but I'd never even heard of it before today; apparently it has episode/extras commentaries with Rob and Doug, brought together again well after their professional split to do this. (Which was nice to read, since while it will realistically probably never happen, lends a sliver of hope that maybe Rob could involve himself once more with RD writing at some future point.)

I'd forgotten what it was like to know so much within a fandom (not that I do, here, but seeing others who do, I mean); I remember being in the TNG fandom just a few years after the series started in 1987, and learning all I could and listening to fan and actor stories and the like. (And for those of you who were in a fandom pre-Internet, a sidebar: Isn't it amazing how much we fans of something were able to find out and hear without a Google go-to or email? That's what you call dedication - or insanity.)

All right, there's my pointless rambly post; hey, at least I gave you a link to a taping review! Anyone else as clueless as me, or do you all know everything, LOL? Thoughts generally?

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Yeah, I checked eBay for that DVD set - holy frijoles! I'll be fucked if I'm paying $300 for that! I am actually working on trying to save for a trip to the UK later this year or next if they film another series instead, and all my pennies go toward THAT.

Now "Dad" is on one of the seasons in the extras (as is the Cat episode never filmed), and I agree about that slash factor. Very nice. I think I really would probably just like to have this set (affordably, mind) for the Doug and Rob commentaries. Barring that, it would be lovely if someone had transcribed them somewhere to be read. You know of any such place? :-)

Someday, I really want some outside source, like a UK journalist in the know, to write a definitive biography of the show and the participants involved. It's a project I would enjoy doing myself (seeing as I am a journalist), but I don't live there and don't have the free time to devote to cultivating/contacting the proper interview sources, sadly. An Erik Larsen-type book would be fabulous.

(I'm not worried about Rimmer's git-ness. I trust Chris pretty much completely to do whatever he can with the material he's presented to make it palatable.)

I don't know of anywhere the Rob/Doug commentaries have been transcribed to, sadly. If it's not on G&T (I've been through most of their archives), then it probably doesn't exist.

I suppose I could give it a go myself, but without the episodes in front of you - the lost "Bodysnatcher" ep, the original version of "The End", "Dad" and a few short script extracts, you'd only get half the picture. Or did you mean Doug and Ed Bye on the regular eps?

I own an old episode guide covering Series 1 - 8. It's good for basic info, but not entirely accurate. The reason given for dropping "Dad" was that Rob and Doug felt it was danger of becoming sexist and homophobic. When you actually watch it it's not. The reason, it turns out, was more that Doug was a father already, but Rob wasn't at the time and just couldn't get up the interest to do the script justice. *Lol*

Gee, it would've been so hard to find a woman who'd given birth to find out more about how that feels and works and stuff, to finish the script. ;-)

Really, with Rob and Doug, I just want to know what they thought while working up some of their episodes (well, I'd take ALL, but I presume they don't comment on every episode?). I'm a fan, I'm a writer, it's interesting stuff.

Rob and Doug commentate on the original version of "The End" (nowhere near as good as the broadcast version), "Bodysnatcher", "Dad" and a couple more brief script extracts that never made it into the show. Also on a "Can't Believe How Embarrassing This Is" daytime TV show they appeared on to promote the show in 1991. *Lol* I think Rob's also in the docs.

Doug and director Ed Bye commentate on "Me2", "Kryten", "Better Than Life", "Polymorph" and "Bodyswap".

When I have time, I'll summarise the interesting, writing and character-related stuff. :)

That would be awesome, and definitely merits its own separate post, IMO!

Clearly Doug wasn't much better at writing a female perspective alone, judging by S8 (LOL - girls like clothes! And have breasts! And menstruate!)

I agree about Season 8 being pretty feeble at presenting a female perspective, but Doug's writing was definitely at its weakest point then (and he had co-writers who obviously weren't anywhere near as good as Rob). But to be fair, the characterisation was off in general e.g. Lister suddenly became the thick, boozed up lad people who've never watched RD assume he is, when we all know there's a lot more to him than that.

I think that Doug did prove in "Last Human" that he's capable of writing a sympathetic Kochanski, but maybe only in novel format.

I've thought for years now that Always should incorporate that clip with the "Have A Good Period" banner that Lister put up into its ads by the same theme - ever since the company came out with that moronic ad campaign, LOL.

I actually do find that particular sequence funny - it harks back to earlier examples of Kryten's innocent ignorance of human social niceties e.g. in DNA. You'd have to be pretty humourless not to laugh. :)

ACK, I forgot - it was only Lister's suggestion, Krytie put up the banner. (To be clear, I found the Always ad campaign moronic, not the RD scene. I had periods for 25 years, and a "good" one was still one very very few men would volunteer to have!) I actually am in the minority, I guess, that liked S8 overall. I've seen some fans complain how cheaply it had to be made because of budget, but maybe that's what forced them to go back to a dialogue- and pranks-heavy format - that's how the show began in 1988 and hey, it worked.

I go back and forth on Season 8 - after the bleakness of episodes like "Epideme", it's nice to be back on the Dwarf and surrounded by people. The fact that the cast are obviously having a ball also helps. :)

I'm less keen on the crudity of some of the gags - I know the show's always had that element, but do we really need to see pubic hair on soap? :(

I completely agree that most sanitary products advertising is ludicrous. Oh hey, it's that time of the month - let's go hanggliding!

I find the joke itself pretty amusing (I love 'Don't you want to playing tennis a lot in tight white jeans?') but taken as a whole, it does sort of demonstrate that the writing for Kochanski tends to centre around her being a woman, rather than specific character traits like the men get. I mean, what else happens to her in S8 - nude pogoing? Thinking she might have to have sex with Rimmer? Being lust potion-ed?
I mean, I prefer S8 to S7, and in general I think all the characters are written better in S8 than S7, but writing female characters was never the strong point of either half of Grant Naylor. Just imho!

It also lends credence to the charge that K was written only as a substitute for R in S7, no matter how Doug likes to deny it. Once he had R back, her personality sort of changed.

Now "Dad" is on one of the seasons in the extras
Which one? I don't remember seeing it. I have all 8 series. ???

Actually I'm pretty sure it's only on the "Bodysnatcher Collection". But it was posted to this site back in 2007 when the DVD came out; that's probably what Veronica's thinking of.

Ah. Maybe I'll have to go search for it on here. I really would like to see it. :-)

Sure, that's possible. Is it on YouTube? Could be that's where I watched it. I've also seen the Cat ep, but that wasn't Bodysnatchers, was it? If not, I haven't seen that one.

Yes, I think it was a Youtube clip. The Cat ep's on the Series 7 DVD.

wow, am I behind (and just generally being a tit)

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i'll be with my fellow sisters, doing it for ourselves

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