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reddwarfslash2010-03-29 09:26 pm
veronica-rich.livejournal.com) wrote in reddwarfslash2010-03-29 09:26 pm
RD audiobooks
(Here I come wearing out my welcome once again. Ah, well ...)
I bring up the audiobooks for Red Dwarf because that's sort of what got me back into this show, and into this fandom. My sister gave me her old Zune and on it she had bought and loaded "Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers." At first I just listened to it during long drives because it passed the time and I remembered liking the show and the books; it was, of course, entertaining, and I completely ignored who was reading it until my sister mentioned it to me near the end of my first listening. ("Wow, Rimmer does voices?")
So I've listened to it a few times. She also managed to secure the other three books for me to upload to the Zune to listen to (although I think "Better Than Life" is abridged; it's the radio show Chris read, with all the sound effects done for him instead of him having to simulate his own vomit and disco music, LOL). I just finished BTL and have a couple of observations (if they've been made before here, forgive me; as I said, I'm a clueless n00b).
Right, then. If you haven't read or heard it, "Better Than Life" picks up with the guys all stuck in the video game from the end of "Infinity," all living their fantasies: The Cat is king of half-naked valkyries on an island, Kryten is his housekeeper and dishwasher, Lister is married to Kris in Bedford Falls, with twin sons and where every day is Christmas Eve, and Rimmer is the richest and most powerful man in the world. As on the show when BTL is introduced, however, Rimmer's brain eventually turns everything to shit for them all - which is actually fortunate, since it turns out they've been stuck in the game for a hella long time and NEED to want to escape.
Without going into great details, I'll just pretend people have actually listened to it (or read the book, at least), since that's easy and I'm lazy. IMO at least, BTL is like the saddest piece of unrequited slash romance you will ever listen to being professionally read. IMO, it is painfully clear that Rimmer has a thing for Lister a mile wide and ten miles long, almost on the scale of Lister's dream of finding Kochanski. Here's the bits I noticed:
1. Rimmer divorces his first wife in BTL, a sexy Brazilian model, because she's highstrung and adultering. She comes back in this one a changed woman - literally, having had a personality transplant. She has a sense of humor, has had some of her selfishness removed, and no longer cares about money - and he is hooked. (Who might that sound like a female version of? *G*)
2. When he crashes into Lister's town in the lorry, he actually apologizes and seems to feel bad for ruining his perfect life. (Which, for Rimmer is GAH.)
3. After Rimmer is forced to leave Starbug because Red Dwarf can't sustain his hologram on board there, and Lister crash-lands on an ice planet, Rimmer spends his time harassing Holly and the others to find a way for them to go rescue Lister, who he keeps pointing out is starving on that planet and waiting for them. I mean HARASSING. He brings it up constantly, even worrying while they're being sucked into a black hole.
4. When they slingshot out of the black hole and are safe again, Rimmer and the Cat go down to the ice planet and track down Lister - who has been there for 34 years because of time distortions, being a farmer, and is an old man. Rimmer just seems so happy to have found him, and crestfallen when he realizes how long it's been for Lister to be alone with the cockroaches. (He also refrains from saying anything contradictory when Lister goes on yet again about how he intends to find Kochanski, and notices the memorials he's put up to her: a photo the wall of his house, and a field planted in jasmine with the initials K.K. For Rimmer to shut up about something like this MUST be love.)
5. After Lister dies and they give him a space burial, there's a little line where Rimmer sadly murmurs "goodbye" to the coffin and then has to go inform Holly of Lister's death. Shortly after, Holly begins printing out instructions for how to revive Lister by going through the black hole and burying him on the Backwards planet and then picking him up 36 years later - this to me is the best part of the audiobook, because the description of how damn HAPPY the solution makes Rimmer, how it makes him laugh out of joy for the first time in forever, is quite sweet.
Yeah, I'm a girl. I can't help it. The entire BTL audiobook just has this great undercurrent of Rimmer's love of Lister, whether you choose to see it as slashy or brotherly.
Any of you who've listened to the audiobook/read the book - your thoughts on the Rimmer/Lister dynamic (present or just alluded to one-sided)? What about the other audiobooks?
I bring up the audiobooks for Red Dwarf because that's sort of what got me back into this show, and into this fandom. My sister gave me her old Zune and on it she had bought and loaded "Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers." At first I just listened to it during long drives because it passed the time and I remembered liking the show and the books; it was, of course, entertaining, and I completely ignored who was reading it until my sister mentioned it to me near the end of my first listening. ("Wow, Rimmer does voices?")
So I've listened to it a few times. She also managed to secure the other three books for me to upload to the Zune to listen to (although I think "Better Than Life" is abridged; it's the radio show Chris read, with all the sound effects done for him instead of him having to simulate his own vomit and disco music, LOL). I just finished BTL and have a couple of observations (if they've been made before here, forgive me; as I said, I'm a clueless n00b).
Right, then. If you haven't read or heard it, "Better Than Life" picks up with the guys all stuck in the video game from the end of "Infinity," all living their fantasies: The Cat is king of half-naked valkyries on an island, Kryten is his housekeeper and dishwasher, Lister is married to Kris in Bedford Falls, with twin sons and where every day is Christmas Eve, and Rimmer is the richest and most powerful man in the world. As on the show when BTL is introduced, however, Rimmer's brain eventually turns everything to shit for them all - which is actually fortunate, since it turns out they've been stuck in the game for a hella long time and NEED to want to escape.
Without going into great details, I'll just pretend people have actually listened to it (or read the book, at least), since that's easy and I'm lazy. IMO at least, BTL is like the saddest piece of unrequited slash romance you will ever listen to being professionally read. IMO, it is painfully clear that Rimmer has a thing for Lister a mile wide and ten miles long, almost on the scale of Lister's dream of finding Kochanski. Here's the bits I noticed:
1. Rimmer divorces his first wife in BTL, a sexy Brazilian model, because she's highstrung and adultering. She comes back in this one a changed woman - literally, having had a personality transplant. She has a sense of humor, has had some of her selfishness removed, and no longer cares about money - and he is hooked. (Who might that sound like a female version of? *G*)
2. When he crashes into Lister's town in the lorry, he actually apologizes and seems to feel bad for ruining his perfect life. (Which, for Rimmer is GAH.)
3. After Rimmer is forced to leave Starbug because Red Dwarf can't sustain his hologram on board there, and Lister crash-lands on an ice planet, Rimmer spends his time harassing Holly and the others to find a way for them to go rescue Lister, who he keeps pointing out is starving on that planet and waiting for them. I mean HARASSING. He brings it up constantly, even worrying while they're being sucked into a black hole.
4. When they slingshot out of the black hole and are safe again, Rimmer and the Cat go down to the ice planet and track down Lister - who has been there for 34 years because of time distortions, being a farmer, and is an old man. Rimmer just seems so happy to have found him, and crestfallen when he realizes how long it's been for Lister to be alone with the cockroaches. (He also refrains from saying anything contradictory when Lister goes on yet again about how he intends to find Kochanski, and notices the memorials he's put up to her: a photo the wall of his house, and a field planted in jasmine with the initials K.K. For Rimmer to shut up about something like this MUST be love.)
5. After Lister dies and they give him a space burial, there's a little line where Rimmer sadly murmurs "goodbye" to the coffin and then has to go inform Holly of Lister's death. Shortly after, Holly begins printing out instructions for how to revive Lister by going through the black hole and burying him on the Backwards planet and then picking him up 36 years later - this to me is the best part of the audiobook, because the description of how damn HAPPY the solution makes Rimmer, how it makes him laugh out of joy for the first time in forever, is quite sweet.
Yeah, I'm a girl. I can't help it. The entire BTL audiobook just has this great undercurrent of Rimmer's love of Lister, whether you choose to see it as slashy or brotherly.
Any of you who've listened to the audiobook/read the book - your thoughts on the Rimmer/Lister dynamic (present or just alluded to one-sided)? What about the other audiobooks?
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I've been watching the DVD extras recently, never got around to viewing them all until now; and one of the deleted scenes that's a favourite is from 'Rimmerworld' where Kryten notes that all Rimmer's brothers went insane, destroyed the ships they were commanding, and killed the crews.
From that POV, of course, he's doing well/better in some ways by being the family failure, since apparently succeeding to attain the standards set by his parents was even more pressure than failing them.
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But I like it, because Rimmer's family interests me. (I love the meta-level of the one we see - Frank? - being played by Barrie, since he blames them for getting all the looks, and just like Ace, they are him.)
There's all these different reasons floated about for why they succeed - iirc, the book said they'd had knowledge implanted in them but as the youngest, the money had run out by Arnold's turn. Oh, and there was the idea that he was the only one who wasn't Uncle Frank's.
But this is the only suggestion that with those parents, the upbringing would be hell whether you were the black sheep or the favourite.
I think it's implied he knew in this scene - he's talking about how he's competitive and in his family, there were four boys but three breakfasts, so 'losers didn't eat'.
Kryten says 'Are you sure this is your childhood you're remembering, sir? Not Charles Manson, the early years?' or something similiar. (LOL!)
Rimmer says that you can't argue with his parent's technique, 3 out of 4 being successful being good odds.
Then Kryten says 'But isn't it true that all your brothers (went crazy etc.)?' and Rimmer just says 'That's a bit personal, Kryten!'
But yeah, I wonder if it's something that he wouldn't really want to dwell on, because it takes away from his excuses for himself. They're part of that as well as his parents - I had a tough childhood, my brothers had all the luck. If they didn't, then he has to examine himself instead of blame them, which obviously he wouldn't wanna do.
And also, if they're doomed not to be able to handle success because of these upbringings, then so is he.
Plus, he might still see them as successes. Sure, they went psychotic, but they got the badge first!
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I didn't even think about Rimmer not being fully related to his brothers. DUHHHH. *smacks forehead* You think, then, that he's the only one who is his father's son, and maybe that's the reason his mother dislikes him? (Too, maybe Dad knows all this and that's why HE dislikes him - there's a feeling of "you mean the three dynamos aren't mine, but THIS one IS?")
then he has to examine himself instead of blame them, which obviously he wouldn't wanna do
Another good point. I notice in "Backwards" he doesn't cheer up around Ace until he figures out something he could get him in trouble for (colliding with Starbug). And he is amazed when Ace takes the blame and concentrates on solving the problem rather than dwelling on it.
Plus, he might still see them as successes. Sure, they went psychotic, but they got the badge first!
And HERE is where I hope his time with Lister lands some sort of effect, that he realizes there are different definitions of failure and success. Because DAMN. (Then again, if he only shares half his brothers' DNA, maybe he didn't get the psychotic part.)
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Oh yeah. And if there's self-loathing 'inherited' from anyone, it'd be Dad - he's the one who didn't make the Space Corps, yeah?
Backwards is such a weird book. It really makes you wonder what each writer brought to the show.
One of the things that stuck out for me is that in the show, I always assumed part of what Ace learnt to 'fight back' against was the whole parental expectations thing (I don't know why I assumed this, when really, he's doing exactly what his older brother did - test pilot. I guess because in his reality, his mum arguing with his teacher for him didn't work, so it would seem like he'd have to stand on his own) but in the book, he does seem to have a healthier relationship with them.
It's sort of sad in a way. There's this sense you have to earn love, and he succeeds, but he's almost playing his parent's game more than Normal!Rimmer, who at least has made some small attempt/s at breaking away from that.
Like, Lister as Spanners succeeds, but it doesn't really feel like he earnt it independently - I think it's noted how he had a different bunk-mate who got him and KK back together and helped him study; and how he enrolled in his exams so he could win back Kochanski.
It's almost like to be loved and have success professionally, they have to basically give themselves over to other people's wills.
(Same as in the S7 alternative crew, where Hologram!Lister seems to have basically totally taken on Kochanski's interests and personality.)
Whereas The Last Human has its faults, but you get the sense the characters are appreciating each other as they are.
I hope his time with Lister lands some sort of effect, that he realizes there are different definitions of failure and success.
Totally. Again on the book thing, there was some line in the Me2 part where the new Rimmer says how Lister's already changed Old!Rimmer, how he would have never even apologised when he was alive.
(I also loved the dvd deleted scenes from that ep in S1, where Lister's trying to get the Cat to live with him; really shows how he hates to be alone as much as Rimmer, and how he does rely on the interactions they have.)
And I think he definitely learns to appreciate the more important things from that example - like that episode where he's saying Lister has all this faults, but people like him. He understands why they do, he does himself although grudgingly, even if he can't/won't be that way himself.
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Backwards is such a weird book. It really makes you wonder what each writer brought to the show.
And it seems to carry over to fanfic, doesn't it? There are a fair number of gestalt writing teams I've noticed around here at least, so far, and I sort of wonder if this is common to all fandoms or if some have a higher incidence of it. Certainly RD would lend itself to the notion. (Not that most shows and movies AREN'T written by more than one person, but a lot of times there's only one person credited: Joss Whedon. J.J. Abrams. Chris Carter. Eric Kripke.
Now I'm wondering: Where the heck are all the female creators in sci-fi? I need to write a show!)
There's this sense you have to earn love, and he succeeds, but he's almost playing his parent's game more than Normal!Rimmer, who at least has made some small attempt/s at breaking away from that.
For me, each version of Rimmer has his own appeal. Ace is conventionally heroic (but I think also genuinely heroic, as well) and socially dominant, but there is a sense that he's thrived within an established system - the same system Rimmer keeps failing within. It's all about attitude. Whereas, Rimmer's one screwed-up puppy, but he does show sparks of Ace-like traits. After all, divorcing your parents can't be easy to initiate or do; neither can sticking with something you're clearly not good at for fifteen years (which requires a certain stubbornness). Nat, my friend who's been in this fandom a lot longer than I have, said if you watch "Bodyswap" when Rimmer is piloting away from the Dwarf (via Lister's body), he's actually a very good pilot and only crashes because he takes his eyes off the screen. So yeah - he has an Ace somewhere down there inside him. *G*
I think it's noted how he had a different bunk-mate who got him and KK back together and helped him study; and how he enrolled in his exams so he could win back Kochanski.
Yeah, that's in "Backwards." It's almost told like "well, RIMMER certainly wasn't going to do this for him." Whereas, I sort of thought "maybe Rimmer thinks Lister is an adult who should be managing his own life if he wants something badly enough," LOL. Sure, there's a certain amount of help a friend ought to give another friend, but they also should know when to back off (or not even start in the first place). I think this is how the writers balanced each other out once upon a time. It'll be interesting to see what happens if there's a new series and Naylor is the only one in charge of storylines.
like that episode where he's saying Lister has all this faults, but people like him
The triple fried egg chili chutney sandwich of "Thanks for the Memory." I love that scene; it's one of the few times you see Rimmer actively appreciating anything about Lister, and Lister being nice to him. That dynamic wouldn't work most of the time for them, but I enjoy it when it presents itself.
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So yeah - he has an Ace somewhere down there inside him.
For sure, and vice versa - I like how Ace, while overcoming a lot of Rimmer's hang-ups that hold him back, isn't necessarily perfect - he meets them screwing up in Dimension Jump. He just deals with mistakes by going 'How can I fix this?' where Rimmer obsesses and apportions blame, which just draws more attention.
I sort of thought "maybe Rimmer thinks Lister is an adult who should be managing his own life if he wants something badly enough," LOL.
ROFL, well, really! I think there's some funny line (well, I presume it's meant to be cheesy and funny, since it was) where this guy's sat down KK and Lister and explained to them about relationships and how passion burns out.
Like, jesus, have fun rearing two grown adults and handholding them into raising a family, there.
If the only thing between them breaking up forever and being blissfully married is that they need this random dude to tell them what to do at every step, maybe they just weren't that suited in the first place.
(I always liked the early canon of Kochanski and Lister never having dated, anyway. It's more romantic to have this lost opportunity than 'They had sex a bunch, then she dumped him for her ex.')
I love that scene; it's one of the few times you see Rimmer actively appreciating anything about Lister, and Lister being nice to him.
Yeah, it's one of my favourite episodes of that season (second only to Parallel Universe), really sweet.
I like ones where you can see where both characters are coming from in a conflict (heh, although also there's quite a few episodes where one in particular is screwing up, and you're cringing to watch them - Rimmer in 'Rimmerworld' when he's sneaking away, or Lister in 'Marooned' when he saves his guitar) and that one's really well put together.
I love how Lister gets this new view on his own memory (like how he puts it - Rimmer saw her in a way that Lister never really did, and how Rimmer's instantly recognises he 'treated her really badly' where Lister made excuses at first), whereas Rimmer sees where Lister's coming from for once, too.