Rimmer And Yvonne McGruder

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

There's a thread on TOS about the morality of Rimmer sleeping with McGruder while she was suffering from concussion.  Personally I've always assumed that if she'd been discharged from the medibay then she was sufficiently "with it" to know what she was doing.  I also accepted the "Last Human" retcon which explains a lot more about what went on that night.  (Spoilers in the thread just in case anyone hasn't read it.)

But reading some of the points brought up in this thread makes me uncomfortable.  Wondering how others interpret it.

http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/forum/messages.cfm?threadid=B9128677-1999-AFED-B439706F293BF2EA

Sorry to bring up such an unsavoury topic, but it's something that clearly had a big impact on Rimmer and is referenced quite a lot in the series.

Comments

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

I realized I left out some stuff that I consider self-evident due to my reading of Rimmer's character, which I should probably specify. :p

What I mean by I just can't see a way in which it could be argued that Rimmer took advantage of her, is that Rimmer, as I see him, is not exactly a pro-active person. Furthermore, he is a self-proclaimed, proven coward, and he is incredibly inexperienced. For this and other reasons, I just don't see him, certainly not at that point in his life, as an aggressor in a sexual situation*, even in one in which the other person is incapacitated, which I don't think McGrueder was.

Hence, it's pretty obvious to my mind that he's trying to frame the encouter as a sexual conquest to Lister, and therefore frames himself as an aggressor, but the situation as described in Last Human - and possibly elsewhere; I seem to remember it being mentioned several times in the books - is really what I always imagined; her as the aggressor.

That said, a lot is obviously hanging on what actually happened, which, in TV-canon... we just don't know. The above is what I've always thought, but hey; I could be entirely wrong!


*rape is not, of course, sex, but I'm arguing that what happened wasn't rape.

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

I agree that if we interpret Rimmer as a closeted gay man as well as a very naive virgin at the time of the McGruder encounter, it's difficult to imagine him being the one to initiate things. It's also in character for him to subsequently exaggerate his role in events.

Lister probably finds it hard to believe that anyone could be genuinely attracted to Rimmer at this stage of the series - the initial discussion is in Series 1's "Confidence And Paranoia", before the writers started to soften Rimmer a bit.