Rimmer And Yvonne McGruder

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

There's a thread on TOS about the morality of Rimmer sleeping with McGruder while she was suffering from concussion.  Personally I've always assumed that if she'd been discharged from the medibay then she was sufficiently "with it" to know what she was doing.  I also accepted the "Last Human" retcon which explains a lot more about what went on that night.  (Spoilers in the thread just in case anyone hasn't read it.)

But reading some of the points brought up in this thread makes me uncomfortable.  Wondering how others interpret it.

http://www.reddwarf.co.uk/forum/messages.cfm?threadid=B9128677-1999-AFED-B439706F293BF2EA

Sorry to bring up such an unsavoury topic, but it's something that clearly had a big impact on Rimmer and is referenced quite a lot in the series.

Comments

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Tbh, I considered posting this on more than one occasion (whenever the thread was bumped) and didn't. It kept nagging away at me and I wanted to discuss it with others. I honestly don't think what happened was rape (in either direction) but reading that thread made me wonder.

With Nirvanah, firstly the dragging bit was deleted, so isn't seen on TV repeats. Secondly, the obvious physical difference between Rimmer and Nirvanah makes it hard to believe that she could force him to have sex. Persuade him, yes.

I always took his hesitation as nervousness because of his inexperience. Obviously if you see him as a repressed homosexual, there's that aspect as well.

[bayliss.livejournal.com]

We also could question all consent. Since hormones play a large part in attraction and in sexual congress.

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

You mean we're all, male and female, slaves to our biological impulses? Debatable, but I have to admit my monthly cycle does affect me more at some times than others.

Not that that would ever justify rape, obviously. There is no justification for that, ever.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

I firmly believe that the Rimmer/Nirvanah sex was consensual, but just wanted to chip in that differences in stature and physical strength doesn't rule out rape. You can force someone to have sex with you without doing so physically. (Using threats, a position of power, etc.)

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I phrased that rather badly. Obviously rape can occur without physical force being used.

I should have made it clearer that I was referring to the specific incident in "Holoship", which I too interpret as clearly consensual, whether you "count" the deleted scene or not.