Realisations re 'Fathers & Suns'

[sunny-bexster.livejournal.com]

Cut for spoilers.



Boyfriend shared some interesting observations from 'Fathers & Suns' today.

I was discussing how a few people on this comm have noted Lister's regression. He's back to the series 1-2 Lister - seemingly motivated only by play. This obviously differs from the Lister from series 6 onwards, who seemed a self-appointed leader in a fair few eps. People have wondered whether the relative safety of the 'Dwarf has led to Lister feeling more at ease and more able to just 'kick back and relax'.

Boyfriend piped up with "I think it's Kochanski"

Series 1-2 Lister vowed to get Kochanski back...despite the fact she was dead. He was single-mindedly determined to get the woman he loved and build a new life in Fiji and the simple matter that she was a pile of radioactive dust seemed irrelevant. 

Series X Lister retorts back with "and how am I supposed to do that?" when told to pull himself together and get Kochanski back. We know Kochanski isn't dead in this series - she's just gone. 

Somewhere along the line, Lister has lost what little gumption he has. He appears to have given up on the one constant in his life - Kochanski. And frankly, it's affecting his mental health.

It's a bold take by Doug. I've always thought that Lister dealt a little too well with his predicament. He appears to get over the death of the entire crew with relative ease and aside from a few throw-away scenes/references (i.e the depression aspect of Timeslides), it always appears to be Rimmer who is bearing the brunt of mourning for the human race and lamenting their existence.

But now, it appears that Lister is cracking. As of yet, I'm not sure whether this gradual deterioration started before or after Kochanski left. The suggestion in 'Back to Earth' is that Lister wasn't taking care of himself...so it might be the case that for the last few years in show, Lister has been steadily on the decline in terms of happiness.

What do people think? And what do people expect to see/want to see in the forthcoming eps?

Comments

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Well, this is a slash comm, so I don't really need to detail what most of us would LIKE to see. ;)

Seriously though, regarding what to expect from forthcoming eps, we know that Ep 5 has a storyline which might possibly give Lister renewed purpose (I won't go into it as I know some are still avoiding spoilers). It depends what the outcome of that ep is.

Re Lister's general behaviour, in "BTE" he was clearly suffering from depression, but how severely I couldn't say, not being a doctor. My limited understanding of the condition is that it comes and goes, so perhaps he's currently in a "down" phase.

[kms726.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you that it seems Lister is cracking. I'm trying to collect my thoughts on this, and I'll try not to make this comment turn into an essay!

I recall that one of the first things you said to me after you saw F&S was "I really think Lister's going mad". He seems very dissatisfied with his life, and who can blame him? It's like the anti-pep talk Kryten gave him in the first trailer. On Red Dwarf, Lister's got no job, family, prospects, future. Clearly he's disappointed with himself from what we saw in this week's ep. He's not happy with how his life has turned out. He's totally ready to settle down--as evidenced by Lister Snr telling Lister Jr to build a proper house and find Krissie. We saw this a bit in BtE too, with the tinfoil family. Lister's past his laddish bachelor days. He's reached that age where he's looking for something more in life. And he's frustrated because he doesn't know *how* to get what he wants, and if it's even possible.
I think it's safe to say Lister's having a mid-life crisis. That would explain why he appears to be regressing and acting more like his series I-II self.

BtE ended with a hopeful Lister saying he'd get Kochanski back. Now he's realizing that's easier said than done. If Kochanski doesn't want to be found, Lister's not going to have much luck. It's a pretty big universe out there. On a side note, I wonder if she's gone insane being on her own for years...
Lister has no idea how to get Krissie back-- "And how am I supposed to do that?"

I don't think he's exactly given up on Kochanski; I think he's back to square one. He had Kochanski once, and she died. He mourned over her for years and looked for any way to get her back. Then he had her again, and she died again. Or so he thought. So he had to go through the whole mourning process again. And then to find out she's alive after all and left because she was sick of how he was acting? That'd be a blow. Those kids on the bus said Lister had been dumped and KK left because she couldn't stand his self-destructive behavior.

Which begs the question--why would Lister be drinking himself to death if he was with Kochanski, and had what he'd wanted all these years? Maybe it wasn't everything he'd imagined and he couldn't take it. I know Lister still wants to get back to Earth, but I think he's finding that pursuit more and more futile. I think there must have been something else going on during that time we don't know about.

I think I've just created more questions than answers, really :/

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

YES. This.

And I haven't even seen "Fathers and Suns" yet (hence me only skimming the comments below), so that should tell you something. But yeah, roadstergal and I watched "Trojan" together, and after about five minutes, I thought to myself "hang on, he's not doing so well, is he?"

I really hope they're actually taking this somewhere, rather than just having it be a feature of his character from now on...

[felineranger.livejournal.com]

The feeling I got from BTE was that he and Kochanski were 'together' in some capacity but that for some reason that wasn't enough. With slash goggles on I'd be tempted to guess the reason for this would be that finally being with Kochanski made him realise it wasn't her that he really wanted...
A more likely scenario in terms of canon is that either the relationship was a 'friends with benefits' arrangement and he wanted more OR maybe she really did love him and his insecurities and self-esteem issues just wouldn't let him believe it. Maybe he couldn't convince himself that he was anything more than a substitute for 'her Dave' and that's what scuppered the relationship.
The insinuation in BTE is that Kochanski did have feelings for him - we're told she left not because she was angry, frustrated by his lack of ambition or even looking for her own dimension, but because she couldn't bear watching him self-destruct.
BTW I'm one of those people who strongly suspects Kriss is still on the ship somewhere waiting for him to pull himself together. She'd have to be bonkers to head off into the universe all alone on Blue Midget surely???