Last Woman?

[lordvalerymimes.livejournal.com]

I had a shower thought while I was getting ready this morning. I wonder how different the general fan population response to Lister/Rimmer shipping would be, if Lister were a female.

Imagine the show is still exactly the same, the same plots, the same scripts (with a few modifications here and there for pronouns obviously), but Lister is played by a woman, and is a female character. How different, do you think the responses of the general fandom would be, to the idea of the two characters becoming romantic with one another? I'm sure there would still be naysayers and those who couldn't get past Lister's slobbiness and the surface dislike the characters have for one another, but I have a feeling that loads more people would be champing at the bit to see the two of them get together, and hoping that the ultimate end of the show would involve the two of them realizing that they can be happily ever after together.

Imagine how differently the state-of-the art sarnie scene would read to an average heterosexual crowd, if Lister had been a woman instead of a man. I doubt you'd have anyone saying that we were "reaching" to imply some sexual overtones in Rimmer's comparison. Not to mention Lister pining for Rimmer in series VII. Or the love that High Lister and Rimmer express for one another in Demons and Angels.

My thought is, if you would be willing to except romance between two characters if they were of opposite genders, then probably the only reason why you're NOT ok with romance happening between the two of them, is because they're of the same gender. As someone wisely said on Tumblr, it's not about making everything gay, it's about not having heterosexuality be the default.

Comments

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Me personally, I dislike what I read as forced romance in a lot of movies and TV shows that happen to star a man and a woman. Sometimes the tension and/or chemistry is there and sometimes it's sexual, but sometimes it's not. For whatever reason, I was a Noromo in the X-Files fandom - I was fine with people who shipped Mulder/Scully and I even read the occasional fic, but I didn't feel it myself, and I really didn't want them to get together in the show. (I guess what Carter did with having them eventually be together, have a baby together, etc., without explicitly showing much of anything, was a pretty good compromise to me.)

My point is, I'm always a little befuddled by people who let gender stand in the way of "seeing" something that's just going to circulate in fandom anyway. Lister/Rimmer will never become canon, and I'm not sure I'd want it to. I don't know if it could be written to my satisfaction - I don't mean the sex, I mean the relationship. I feel like it would become An Issue Thing, TBH. I mean, they already feel matched up to me, in their interactions and plotlines, reactions, etc. But as for it being in fanon, I think anything can be fanon - that's half the point of HAVING a fandom (I see the other half as appreciating canon/discussing and analyzing it).

But to answer your question, I don't think there's any doubt that if either Lister or Rimmer were female instead and the other were kept male, a relationship would be implied if not explicitly portrayed. In fact, I'm willing to bet if you made one of them gay in canon, even as opposite genders there'd still be this sense of "maybe that one can be converted" hanging over it. (Hey, I've seen it happen before. It's not rare in entertainment.)

[(Anonymous)]

...or there is a word 'bisexual' that homophobic people fear even more than word 'homosexual'...
When I think of slash with canon heterosexual relationships I don't think of it as 'conversion', I think of it 'they also can be bi'. But with homophobes it's always 'conversion' on any 'side'.

[lala-sara.livejournal.com]

anonymous was me, i didn't log in. but now it's pending anonymous comment so should I try to recall what i wrote? hate it.
lost momentum...
it should said:
...or there is a word 'bisexual' that homophobic people fear even more than 'homosexual'.
When I slash someone who have heterosexual relationship in canon I don't think of them 'converting' i think of them as bi. But for homophobes it's always about 'conversion', on any 'side'.

[lordvalerymimes.livejournal.com]

I was only a casual X-Files fan, but I never really felt any chemistry between Mulder and Scully either. Although I did find David Duchovny quite attractive. I stopped watching the show at some point and didn't know that actually ended with the two of them together and having a baby. That seems... odd. I might have to try to rewatch the show on Netflix sometime.

I would never want Lister/Rimmer to be written as canon either, because there would be zero chance that it would be done well. I'm just glad we have our own slashy imaginations. Still, I just wish there wasn't this divide between the people who do choose to ship them, and the people who get all up-in-arms about it.