Assessing the fandom.

[laurenthemself]

Must not converse with cheezdanish about Mary Sues.

Note: You needn't answer all questions if you don't want to. Please try not to go too nuts with the tickyboxes. Anyone voting 'Kryten' for any question will be subject to Funny Looks^TM.

[Poll #788196]

Comments

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

It's kinda funny - Rimmer, personality-wise, reminds me strongly of two other fictional sticks-in-the-mud; Frank Burns of MASH and Steven Hauk of Good Morning, Vietnam - and those two are not beset by fangirls in the same way. I love all three on the interesting-slime-character level (especially Hauk; Bruno Kirby did a fantastic job with him, as per the general standard of acting in that movie), but those two are not beset with fangirls in the way Rimmer is. I think it's Mr. Barrie. kahvi and I have discussed his Aceish qualities. He does make even confirmed heterosexuals very interested.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

It is without doubt Mr. Barrie. I agree Frank Burns having a similar personality, but he just isn't CUTE ::g::
It is actually quite a feat to take this neurotic gittish character and make him still vulnerable enough that you feel sorry for him even in his worst moments.
I can't stand Ace, so I have problems finding him attractive, but you gotta love Chris in that outfit.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's why I made Ace my unrequited crush - I'll admire him from afar, thanks. ;)

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Additional: Frank Burns is in a way proof that gits can get laid. There is plenty of woman who will take the git to bed if he is attractive (and clean, Lister!), and those who will love the fact that they have the upper hand (like Hotlips), or will see him as a rehabilitation project, women tend to like that. Holoship really supports that - someone capable of taking initiative grabs him immediately.
But it is likely that men writing will think that he cannot get women, while not realising that a lot of women will not like a type like Ace at all, that is a type other men admire.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

True. RD was indeed written from a male perspective. Of course, there are plenty of women who see the "will not settle down" Ace type as the challenge to rehabilitate. M'self, I dunno how much Risk diary and Christian rock music I could stand in a sexual partner. :p

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

But it wouldnt stop you from sleeping with him until you tired of it, would it? So "Rimmer only getting it once" is not believable from a womans standpoint.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

You know, I wouldn't sleep with Rimmer even once as he was when he was alive. Just too many personality traits that turn me off, regardless of looks.

Tikka-Rimmer - I'll take it, thanks. And that's why I slash these two. They made a certain... journey together that ended with Rimmer at that far, far better point. VIII-Rimmer has his drawbacks, but I think he's a great tool (pun intended) to show how much Rimmer changed.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Now I agree with you there.
But my point is that I am sure some women would at least as a one night stand. And there are women who would see this socially inadept male as great reform project.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Yeppers, I can see that. I'd see him as a waste of time, but there is where Lister is a better man than I. Er, so to speak.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

When you see the men some women waste their time on, I would say Rimemr was a pretty good project, actually!

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Dear lord, yes.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

And I also think that VII showed how much Listers immatureness back then contributed to Rimmers behaviour.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Well, I think Rimmer very solidly was who he was already by the time he met Lister. I'd say his upbringing had a lot to do with who he was, but he was an adult by the time they started bunking.

Again, the pranking reminds me of Hawkeye and Frank, though. ;) I've been re-watching MASH for the first time in a while, and dear lord, Hawkeye spends half his time kissing Frank or groping Radar, I swear.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Yes, but so he is in VII, but still the dynamics have shifted because Lister is different.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

True, but I think a lot of what changed in V/VI/VII was introspective self-realization on Rimmer's part (with help from Lister, but with help from outside sources, as well). And I think he was then in an position to appreciate Lister.

Rimmer's change would have been just as good for Lister as vice versa, in my slashy mind. :)

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Obs, sorry, I meant VIII. Lister was matured, Rimmer back to start, but Listers changes changed how they related to each other.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, no doubt. There's also a change in circumstance there, too, though; no longer is Rimmer the authority (by however small a margin). Instead, it's Rimmer and Lister at the same (subterranean) level, and Rimmer was grateful for the comradeship (once he was over getting peeved at Lister for, as he saw, landing him there in the first place).

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Again it works for the series, but there is not hiding that the actors are extremely much more comfortable around each other than they used to be, and therefore the characters seems to be much less at odds.
If they had gotten along that well from the start, it would have been a different series. Also for the reason that it is clearly stated that this to some extent forced the writers to change the series to be a more ensemble thing.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Ja - it has been said many times by many folk that Rob and Doug blurred the line between actor and character, so the show is what it is party because of the actors. I wish they had followed holo!Rimmer and Lister with the C/C dynamic in VIII, though! Ach.