Does Lister Really Have A "Type"?

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

I read a brief discussion on the official site in which a poster opined that the common opinion that Kochanski 2.0 simply isn't Lister's type may not be true. They pointed out that Lise Yates is "reasonably well spoken" and that he seems quite happy in "Timeslides" with the extremely upper-class Lady Sabrina Mulholland-Jjones.

I've always thought that original Kochanski seemed better suited to him, but as many have noted, we really don't get to know her very well at all. Maybe Chloe's version isn't as ill-suited as we often imagine.

Here comes the slash angle - Saylee recently pointed out that if we discount Lister's ability to fall for someone who's fussy and uptight, we sink our own ship. ;)

Thinking about Doug's thought processes when he decided to bring in Kochanski for Series 7, I realise part of it was to bring in a woman in order to improve the chances of financing for the longed-for film. Implicit in that was to introduce a potential love interest for Lister. I find it fascinating that he ended up with a character who has similarities with early Rimmer. She may be a lot more competent, but she doesn't fit in with the group either - for example, the scene in "Blue" where she tries to interest the others in an opera game is reminiscent in some ways of Rimmer trying to get the party going in "Dimension Jump" and droning on about Risk in "Meltdown".

The salad cream saga also seems the kind of thing Rimmer would get het up about. I find these parallels amusing. :)

Comments

[sallycandance.livejournal.com]

I've never thought about the parallels between Kochanski 2.0 and Rimmer. That's fascinating indeed. Something going on there on a sub-conscious level, Mister Naylor...?!

[dragonsquill.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought about those parallels (but I've only seen series 7 once, much like BTE, while I've watched the others a ridiculous number of times), but I like your take on them! I admit to finding Kochanski 2.0's personality grating, but I love Rimmer (while accepting that he's a smeghead). There's something in the delivery, I guess!

As to a type, I really think Lister is the sort of person who's typeless. He would like...whomever he likes, and the next person would probably be fairly different. Lise seemed well spoken and feminine, Kochanski 1.0 was scrappy (as was his image of Camille, but she was really more like Lister than Kochanski 1.0) but intelligent enough to serve as a navigation officer on the bridge , Pete HoweverIt'sSpelled's sister looked like an early 90s swimsuit model, and Hayley Summers was responsible enough to be a bank teller but also had some traditionally "male" interests (as Rimmer gleefully pointed out). He seems more to be the sort of person who likes variety. He falls madly, desperately in love, is obsessed for a while, then loses interest (which is why I prefer the never dated version of his relationship with Kochanski 1.0 to the later retcons, because I think once he was WITH her, the obsession would have passed somewhat). This, of course, leaves the floor open for him to fall in love with a neurotic git, only by that point he's older and in a position where he can't scarper off when he gets bored...plus their relationship has become so complex over the years that he'd be bored out of his skull if he dropped it, even with other people around (a la "Blue" and his clear delight at seeing human Rimmer in "Back in the Red," up to the sort of familial, playful banter of series X).

There was never any real romantic chemistry between Craig and Chloe, so I never bought that he was genuinely in love with Kochanski 2.0. He had more chemistry in one scene with Claire. He seems to be more going through the motions of having his obsession up close and personal, which probably helped take his mind off sending his best friend/worst enemy/pseudo-brother/inadvertent love interest off to die as Ace. All of that was born out to me somewhat with BTE, as much as I disliked it. I got a vibe that Kochanski knew Dave better than Dave did when it came to his obsession with her.

[(Anonymous)]

Long before I found my slash goggles, it felt to me like Kochanski 2.0 was a blatant attempt to fill the Rimmer shaped hole left by Chris leaving the series. Though she never really managed to fit the empty space left behind, I couldn't help but figure that was the intention, to continue the Rimmer/Lister dynamic without Rimmer. I think that's why I have more of a problem with her in 7 than in 8, cause she's no longer meant to fill Rimmer's spot in 8 so I think she's able to make her own pace in the group.

I do agree with dragonsquill that Lister seemed to be more going through the motions with K2.0(much easier to type on my phone) than being properly interested.

~

[bayliss.livejournal.com]

I can not add anything to this... except that I agree completely. So I'm just going to put this here...



:-)

[saylee.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I think the problem with Kochanski 2.0 as Lister's love interest isn't so much that she's not his type (something that probably wouldn't carry a lot of weight with him if he had feelings for someone, anyway, even if it was clear he had a type), but that, as dragonsquill says, there's no real romantic chemistry there. Also, maybe the fact that we know that she's there as a potential love interest for Lister makes it feel forced.

The parallels between Rimmer and Kochanski are great.

[felineranger.livejournal.com]

I agree that Lister probably doesn't have a type - my guess is that he goes for girls who are fun to be around and doesn't care too much if they look a certain way or come from a certain background. That's why there was never the chemistry with Kochanski 2.0. She was never written as a fun girl, she was more like a moany nagging mother or wife. I don't think the lack of chemistry had anything to do with the actors, if you look at the outtakes or even the DVD commentaries, Craig and Chloe have far more chemistry off screen than they do on and that's down to poor writing. Let's face it, they were given very few scenes to even start making any kind of chemistry - the relationship was never really explored at all. Interestingly, there are a few minor things in the deleted scenes for S8 that hint at a more intimate/relaxed relationship there but they are very small things.

Does Lister really love her? Yes, I think so. Not for the right reasons perhaps, but he does. The reason he remains so obsessed with her is because she represents hope. If he gives up on her, then what does he have left? (Rimmer, of course!). I also think the point about him being a commitment phobe is relevant. He clings to Kochanski because she's the only woman who ever made him want to settle down, she's the only woman he ever saw or wanted a future with. And now she's the only one left. As far as he sees it, that's got to be fate. Right?