Does Lister Really Have A "Type"?

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

I read a brief discussion on the official site in which a poster opined that the common opinion that Kochanski 2.0 simply isn't Lister's type may not be true. They pointed out that Lise Yates is "reasonably well spoken" and that he seems quite happy in "Timeslides" with the extremely upper-class Lady Sabrina Mulholland-Jjones.

I've always thought that original Kochanski seemed better suited to him, but as many have noted, we really don't get to know her very well at all. Maybe Chloe's version isn't as ill-suited as we often imagine.

Here comes the slash angle - Saylee recently pointed out that if we discount Lister's ability to fall for someone who's fussy and uptight, we sink our own ship. ;)

Thinking about Doug's thought processes when he decided to bring in Kochanski for Series 7, I realise part of it was to bring in a woman in order to improve the chances of financing for the longed-for film. Implicit in that was to introduce a potential love interest for Lister. I find it fascinating that he ended up with a character who has similarities with early Rimmer. She may be a lot more competent, but she doesn't fit in with the group either - for example, the scene in "Blue" where she tries to interest the others in an opera game is reminiscent in some ways of Rimmer trying to get the party going in "Dimension Jump" and droning on about Risk in "Meltdown".

The salad cream saga also seems the kind of thing Rimmer would get het up about. I find these parallels amusing. :)

Comments

[saylee.livejournal.com]

I never noticed Rimmer's nose-squinching. I'll have to keep an eye out for it. ;)

As for the rest, yes, what you said exactly. He's convinced himself that he wants one thing and hasn't bothered (or has deliberately not done) examining whether that's still what he wants. You're right that it's part of how he's kept himself sane, but it couldn't have been working that well if his self-destructive behaviour was enough to drive Kochanski off before BTE.

[dragonsquill.livejournal.com]

Admittedly, the squinch is largely a side-effect of what I believe Chris referred to as "full flare with pursed lips" in one of the series one commentaries, but there is a definite squinchiness involved.

Kochanski's leaving was just short of being fridged - shoving her off to create drama for Lister in BTE, But I'd certainly think that Lister's depression, while definitely a factor, wasn't the only reason she left. She was out of her universe, surrounded by people who were not-quite-her-real-friends, she'd tried to move on by dating in prison but now they're all alone again, with a chronically depressed alternate of the man she loved who acted like he was in love with her but clearly wasn't, living a life of intense boredom, dealing with Kryten's obsessive dislike of her....I'd've taken off too. Since what we learn of her leaving comes from Kryten in retrospect and Dave's screwed up subconscious (THIS is your subconscious of joy squid), watchers who think too hard about these things don't really have any idea what her thought process was for leaving.

...Aaaand that is very off topic of whether or not Lister has a type. Ahem. Sorry.

[saylee.livejournal.com]

Good point. I'm going to refer back to this when I need to think about Kochanski's motivations.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

If you really want to confuse yourself, consider Kryten's confession comes in the hallucination. Can he be considered a reliable narrator - or is he telling Lister what he needs to hear to cheer up?

Is she really alive, or not?

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Smeg. Mindfuck. :p

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

It's OK - it's interesting. Especially wondering what kind of joy squid produces the hallucination in "BTE". :/

[saylee.livejournal.com]

Seriously, either Kryten's wrong about it being a joy squid or our lads are seriously smegged up to come up with that hallucination. Unless their subconsciouses are working against each other? Does not compute.

[kronette.livejournal.com]

Don't forget, one of them dreamed up Katarina, who was going to shut off, eject into space and then nuclear bomb Rimmer. If that was Rimmer's subconscious, he needs more therapy. And if it was from the other lads - that's just cruel.

The entire idea of this being from a JOY squid makes zero sense. Their idea of joy is to be killed by their creator, really? If you analyze too closely (or at all), BTE falls completely apart narratively.

[dragonsquill.livejournal.com]

I remember seeing BTE for the first time, and they said it was a JOY squid and I thought, "Are you KIDDING me?! That is the most depressing joy I have ever seen!" Especially for everyone who isn't Lister. I mean, he had a chance at Kochanski, but everyone else just thought they were going to be killed off by a television writer who would later become a nutter rogue simulant. I'd almost buy a "Better Than Life"ness, with Lister being the one bringing down everyone's group hallucinations with his insecurities.

She seemed more like a Distracting Plotline Until You Snuff It Squid to me.

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Some have pointed to Rimmer getting his moment of revenge on Katerina for planning to shut him down, but apart from that there isn't much.

To be fair, you can also nitpick the explanation given at the end of "Back To Reality" - Rimmer's reason for suicidal despair is given as having a richer, more important brother. As opposed to three? :p

Doesn't stop it from being a fabulous episode. :)

[kronette.livejournal.com]

You know Rimmer was going to off himself in the BTR scenario because he and Lister were brothers - and you don't have those feelings about your brother :)

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

To quote Cat: "Well, I wasn't going to be the first to say it". ;)

[kronette.livejournal.com]

*stares at icon* oh, my. that's...lovely.

I was going to put a disclaimer on that "unless your last name is Winchester" but I really don't do Dean/Sam :D

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

I asked Bayliss to make it from that jpeg you linked to. Isn't it lovely? :D

If you'd like to use it too, it would be fair enough since you put the idea into my head. :)

[kronette.livejournal.com]

No, I'm good. I'm back down to a free account so I only get 4 icons. I really only use two of them anyway :)

[felineranger.livejournal.com]

I concur, this icon may be the best thing that's happened to me all week :-)

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Glad to be of service. All credit to Bayliss. :)

The eyes, the smile, the shoulder... gah. ;)