reddwarfslash | Does Lister Really Have A "Type"?

I read a brief discussion on the official site in which a poster opined that the common opinion that Kochanski 2.0 simply isn't Lister's type may not be true. They pointed out that Lise Yates is "reasonably well spoken" and that he seems quite happy in "Timeslides" with the extremely upper-class Lady Sabrina Mulholland-Jjones.

I've always thought that original Kochanski seemed better suited to him, but as many have noted, we really don't get to know her very well at all. Maybe Chloe's version isn't as ill-suited as we often imagine.

Here comes the slash angle - Saylee recently pointed out that if we discount Lister's ability to fall for someone who's fussy and uptight, we sink our own ship. ;)

Thinking about Doug's thought processes when he decided to bring in Kochanski for Series 7, I realise part of it was to bring in a woman in order to improve the chances of financing for the longed-for film. Implicit in that was to introduce a potential love interest for Lister. I find it fascinating that he ended up with a character who has similarities with early Rimmer. She may be a lot more competent, but she doesn't fit in with the group either - for example, the scene in "Blue" where she tries to interest the others in an opera game is reminiscent in some ways of Rimmer trying to get the party going in "Dimension Jump" and droning on about Risk in "Meltdown".

The salad cream saga also seems the kind of thing Rimmer would get het up about. I find these parallels amusing. :)

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I agree that Lister probably doesn't have a type - my guess is that he goes for girls who are fun to be around and doesn't care too much if they look a certain way or come from a certain background. That's why there was never the chemistry with Kochanski 2.0. She was never written as a fun girl, she was more like a moany nagging mother or wife. I don't think the lack of chemistry had anything to do with the actors, if you look at the outtakes or even the DVD commentaries, Craig and Chloe have far more chemistry off screen than they do on and that's down to poor writing. Let's face it, they were given very few scenes to even start making any kind of chemistry - the relationship was never really explored at all. Interestingly, there are a few minor things in the deleted scenes for S8 that hint at a more intimate/relaxed relationship there but they are very small things.

Does Lister really love her? Yes, I think so. Not for the right reasons perhaps, but he does. The reason he remains so obsessed with her is because she represents hope. If he gives up on her, then what does he have left? (Rimmer, of course!). I also think the point about him being a commitment phobe is relevant. He clings to Kochanski because she's the only woman who ever made him want to settle down, she's the only woman he ever saw or wanted a future with. And now she's the only one left. As far as he sees it, that's got to be fate. Right?

Ah, but if as you say, Lister goes for women who aren't hung up on status or appearance, how do you explain L/R? Wouldn't that extend to men, as well? :-D

My personal opinion? When he met Ace and they got on so well, he realised the potential in Rimmer and it stirred subconscious feelings. I know not everyone likes Ace, but he's explicitly represented as "not hung up on status or appearance". ;)

True, but that's why he doesnt like Rimmer at first. In my head canon, I don't think Lister has any real feelings for Rimmer bar 'the guy might actually be attractive if he wasn't such a smeghead' until series 4/5, when pity begins to gradually become fondness. Rimmer on the other hand, I think he's been more or less infatuated with Lister since they met, in a very repressed way. It takes Lister a lot longer to see through all the neuroses to 'the nice guy trying to get out'. But, I agree that meeting Ace in S4 was a big part of that leap.

Yeah, I like to think Rimmer's early infatuation goes back to the book and Lister sticking around a bad neighborhood to show up and help out Rimmer ... even if it embarrassed the fuck out of both of them. LOL

Indeed. Android sheep prostitutes FTW!

I applaud this theory. :)

There's a group cast photo on Google in which Craig and Chloe definitely have a lot more chemistry than we've seen onscreen. But Doug did rather sabotage himself by writing scenes like the one in "Ouroboros" where Lister gives her his sperm sample and they actually start to connect a bit - then Kryten butts in. Even as a slasher, that pisses me off.

There's also the deleted original ending to "Only The Good" where they save the ship, then drink and dance the conga in celebration. I really wanted to see more of that. :)

I agree that she represents hope. I've actually wondered sometimes why he didn't fixate on Lise Yates instead. Their relationship lasted a lot longer (eight months versus approximately a fortnight) and seems to have been blissful until his commitment issues reared their ugly head. Let's face it, the chances of getting her back are no less minuscule than the chances of getting back original Kochanski.

I thought the reason he fixated on Kochanski was largely down to timing - the relationship hadn't been finished long enough for his to get over her when he got put into stasis. If he hadn't got caught with the cat and the accident hadn't happened, maybe she would have come around and they would have had a more successful go of it, or maybe he would have eventually moved on and found someone else to fall in love with.

I wonder if the intensity of his feelings for her also have something to do with his dissatisfaction with his situation, even before the accident. In Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers, it's pretty clear that he hates everything about life on Red Dwarf, and when he does meet her, she becomes the one bright spot in his life, and he falls pretty instantly and intensely in love.

I love that in book canon it's actually Kochanski who makes the first move when she sees Lister trying to work up the courage to approach her. The fact this lovely intelligent girl not only agreed to date him, but actually asked him out was such a huge boost to his self esteem. It even says in the book that whe they were dating he 'magically' became better looking. Of course he didn't really, but it's a clear indication of what the relationship did for his own sense of self worth.

Oh God, what if being in status damages your emotions in some way? OK yes, you're a quantum event with a probability of nothing so no, it doesn't.... but just to run it. He goes into the booth just wanting to get back to earth in a blink of an eye because all he can think about is Krissie, Krissie, Krissie... and then he spends the next three million years (or however long it was, I forget) in that mindset. Winds up obsessed, and then can't figure out why it's not working when he meets KK2.0.

But also, I love the idea that she represents hope.

N.B. Chris Barrie reading IWCD is my canon. ;-)

Intriguing theory. Although I don't want it to be true and doubt it is, it's definitely a good explanation. :)

See, that could be a very plausible explanation of stasis. I never accepted that time stops anywhere altogether - what makes much more sense is that time slows down to an almost infinitesimal rate. Sort of like a black hole, where even scientists will tell you it doesn't come to a halt for an object drawn inside, it just slows to an extreme crawl. So maybe using black hole tachyon technology, that's how the stasis booths were invented and constructed - as in, in three million years, you age maybe a few seconds? It would be more logical AND explain why Lister didn't seem to move at all, because he wouldn't move much in just 3-5 seconds or so.

Yes, one of the many ways in which the books are more depressing than the show. When I first read them I didn't like it - I just wanted the funny show in print. But now I appreciate their depth. :)

Does Lister Really Have A "Type"?

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