A Short Essay

[felineranger.livejournal.com]

I've been doing a lot of thinking lately and this is the result.  Basically, I'm hoping that it will open up something of a discussion thread on slash and the reasons why we love it so.  I'd love it if people could respond by sharing their own feelings and experiences.  If you think I've got it all hideously wrong or if you can totally relate to my views then please let me know.  I'm hoping the results will be interesting and rewarding for all of us!  I have made references to other fandoms but only to illustrate various points - I hope nobody minds.

So what is it that drives us slash writers? Let’s start by looking at the basics - my own experience of the genre is that the vast majority of us are female – not gay or bi-sexual men as I first expected when I ventured tentatively into this world – and relatively young. Fan-girl crushes aren’t restricted to adolescents anymore, but slash fiction in particular I think comes with hang-ups and taboos that mostly only the younger generations are willing to face. Homophobia may be increasingly a thing of the past but I wonder how many women over forty would feel comfortable openly discussing the kind of fantasies that we share here? I am in my twenties and I am selective about who I reveal my slash fetish to –even among friends. It’s certainly not a revelation I would ever share with my parents. Luckily for us, the internet allows us to remain anonymous or even in these ‘permissive’ times I don’t think we’d see nearly as many people in this community. 

            I think it’s fascinating just how widespread slash fiction is these days. Any fandom you care to mention has slash pairings these days. Rimmer and Lister, I suppose, always had it coming. The concept of the two sex-starved men alone together in space makes it hard even for non-slashers not to make the odd jibe – including the cast themselves. I used to think I was part of a slightly pervy minority but clearly this is not the case. Slash now seems to be a part of many fangirl fantasies – which suggests a major shift in both social attitudes and female sexuality. American writer Nancy Friday has made a career out of examining women’s sexual fantasies (read her books, by the way because they are fascinating even if a little too reliant on Freud for everyone’s tastes) and she remarks in Women On Top that female fantasies of two men having sex are a relatively new phenomenon, which she attributes to a growing sense of female independence and empowerment (this was written in the early nineties).

            While I’m not 100% convinced that this analysis tells the whole story it does tie-in with the one of the great truths of fan-fiction – we like to watch the men we love suffer. Angst and hurt/comfort fics make up the basis of a lot of fan-fic – particularly slash. Okay, for any decent story you need conflict and drama, that’s a given, but we do tend to push it to the extremes. I’m as guilty as the next writer – I’ve tortured the boys horribly in my time. I have a slight excuse in that I’ve always had a naughty little taste for S&M and anyone who’s read my back catalogue of fiction will know that for me it’s a simple equation of Listy + Bondage/Pain = Love. Once again, I’ve learned that I’m not in the pervy minority. Just one visit to FF.Net confirmed that for me. If you browse through the Lord of the Rings section, you’ll notice that there are enough Legolas rape fics contained within to compile a collection the size of the great epic itself. Are we all perverts?  

            Personally, I don’t think so. Yes, there is a sense of empowerment in writing such stories; we can make the boys do in fantasy what we’d never get to see in reality and admittedly, some guys are prettier in their suffering than others. Lister’s big brown eyes look lovely magnified by tears and Legolas has the kind of fragile beauty and poise that it’s very tempting to shatter. Rimmer’s a coward and it’s always fun to take him to the edge of his fear before bringing out the hero in him and sometimes it’s nice to see the somewhat cocky Jack Sparrow taken down a peg or two. I could go on but you will all have your different favourites, and your reasons for torturing them without me listing them all here. I think what we really like in these stories isn’t the suffering itself (none of us actually approve of rape whether it’s male, female or anything else – at least I hope), it’s the emotions that it brings out in our heroes. We all know that men just ain’t that good at emotion. It takes a bit of trauma for them to break down and admit that deep down they’re as romantic and slushy as we girls are. Can any of us imagine Rimmer declaring his undying love for Lister under anything but the most extreme circumstances? Could Aragorn ever bring himself to clutch Legolas to his chest if he didn’t think his beloved was mortally wounded and on the brink of death? It’s not the pain we want to see, it’s the romance that comes out of it.

            I used to think that it was only a particular type of man that was slash-prone, but as with many things regarding the genre I have been repeatedly proved wrong. I always felt there had to be some kind of feminine element to the character in question, even if it was something small. Lister (for me at least), while in no way effeminate, has a kind of feminine softness about him, both physically and personally. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that in all the Red Dwarf slash fics I’ve read that touch on gender-play, it’s always Listy who ends up in drag. I couldn’t imagine slashing a character like Commander Sam Vimes, for instance, who is all male through and through (although I do find him very sexy) – but plenty of people have done it. This may be simply down to personal taste but, for me, good slash has to be at least slightly believable. I have a feeling that no amount of torture and pain would be enough to make Vimes admit that actually he quite fancies Captain Carrot. But I suppose wish-fulfilment is the main reason why fan-fic exists...            

            However, I have a theory that there is another reason why women write slash. For any woman writing a love scene between a man she’s attracted to and another woman it’s hard to keep the dreaded Mary-Sue at bay. We put ourselves in the other woman’s place, spelling out the words we want to hear him say to us, we let our imagination loose with what we’d like to do to him and have him do to us. It can be a very revealing business, writing a love scene. By putting the action between two men, we can take a step back and admire the view. We can linger over every detail, confident that we have revealed nothing intimate of ourselves in doing so. We are voyeurs, not participants. That can be very important to a writer who’s not entirely convinced that what they’re writing is A: Any good or B: Very normal. Even in anonymity, sexual fantasies can be a hard thing to share.

            I started writing fan-fiction at a very early age - around twelve to thirteen – and even then it always featured a lot of sex and violence, even if it wasn’t always entirely anatomically correct! In those early fics the action was always strictly hetero; beautiful women, usually Kristine Kochanski and Nirvanah Crane, were always miraculously turning up in some escape pod or another to make the boys lives that bit more interesting and of course, like any budding fan-ficcer I wrote my share of Mary-Sues. I had heard whispers, I don’t even remember where from but my older siblings and their friends may have had something to do with it, that Rimmer was secretly in love with Lister, but I didn’t believe it. They hated each other! The very idea was repellent to me. I continued with my naive and slightly incorrect hetero fics, which over time and with access to Just Seventeen became slightly less naive and rather more correct.

            All this changed when a year or so later I discovered the novels of Anne Rice. Suddenly the possibilities of homosexuality were much more intriguing. The lives and loves of Lestat, Louis, Armand et al gave me a whole new perspective. Cross-over fics naturally ensued with dear Listy and Rimsy joining the uber-sexy ranks of Rice’s undead pantheon. Of course, in my versions, vampires could and frequently did make love... although Lister and Rimmer still never quite found their way into one another’s arms. In the end it was Last Human that gave me my breakthrough. The dynamics of the relationship between Lister, Rimmer and Michael McGruder offered too many avenues to not be explored. By this time I was older and wiser and had begun to see the things in the series itself that had fuelled the shocking whispers I had heard on the school playing field. My transformation into a fully-fledged slasher was complete and even now it is almost exclusively what I write.

            I was lucky. I had a small group of friends who not only shared my passion for writing, but also my passion for my subjects. Long before our home had an internet connection, my fics had an audience and I had access to another source of ideas and inspiration. I often wonder how many of the wonderful writers who grace this community had that advantage – and if not how they managed without it.

            On a recent trip home to my parents I went through the cathartic experience of cleaning out my old room. This included a dog-eared pile of notebooks, folders and scrap paper, literally thousands of pages – more than ten years worth of work by a budding writer and slasher. Except for a few choice pages which contained the seeds of good ideas never completed or maybe a nice turn of phrase which could be re-used, I shredded the entire collection. Writers cannot always afford to be sentimental and most of what was contained in those pages was just too, too horrifically humiliating to keep. I do all of my work on my computer now, where it can be password-protected, altered and deleted for good if ever necessary. I suppose it was reading through those pages and seeing how far I’ve come since those days of shamefully scribbling smut in my bedroom that prompted this essay. We are indeed lucky to have a community of such talented, like-minded people to share our work with. I know for a fact that the concrit and inspiration I’ve received here and in the Red Dwarf Slash Society has made me a far, far better writer than I would have otherwise been. And for that, I would like to thank you all and ask you to continue writing. Because we can only get better.

Comments

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

Well, our experiences have certainly been different! I'm 29, and most of the slashers I know actually older than me, and those that are not are only two or three years younger, with some exceptions. I've always been completely open about my writing, because I don't see it as being different from any other hobby. Of course, I realize that some people might not see it that way, so I do phrase myself carefully sometimes. But hide it? Never. My mom also knows, and will often ask how my projects with roadstergal are doing when I talk to her on the phone.

I started out in the Star Trek fandom, where I get the impression that most writers are actually middle-aged. I really think this is fandom specific. Some fandoms have young writers, some have old, some have a mix. I have been fortunate enough to meet fellow writers IRL, and the first time I had a conversation about slash and writing in a face-to-face situation, I was thrilled! If I had to be secretive about it, I don't think I would enjoy it as much, frankly.

Slash now seems to be a part of many fangirl fantasies – which suggests a major shift in both social attitudes and female sexuality.
Although Kirk/Spock started out in the 1970's. That slash is more mainstream today is beyond a doubt, but it's certainly nothing new! I've also heard that women wrote Holmes/Watson when the Sherlock Holms books were first published, though I have no citation for that, unfortunately.

Angst and hurt/comfort fics make up the basis of a lot of fan-fic – particularly slash. Okay, for any decent story you need conflict and drama, that’s a given, but we do tend to push it to the extremes.
And I don't like those stories that do. You do need conflict and drama, and let's face it - we're writing romance stories here! (Unless we're writing plain porn, but that will usually be PWP.) However, when you take it too far, it too easily becomes parodic.

Are we all perverts?
Yes. Next question! See; anyone can be a pervert, because it all depends on your idea of what perversion is. To some people, homosexuality is perverted. Everyone is perverted. It's not a very useful word, IMO.

Rimmer’s a coward and it’s always fun to take him to the edge of his fear before bringing out the hero in him
There's a hero in Rimmer? Well, all right; yes. There is. But he's extremely deeply buried. I don't think I've ever seen this satisfactorily described in fic. He's an extremely hard character to write.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

We all know that men just ain’t that good at emotion. It takes a bit of trauma for them to break down and admit that deep down they’re as romantic and slushy as we girls are.
That's quite a generalization. I'm not sure I agree, frankly. Stereotypically masculine men, yes. But those are not the only men in fandom. And look at Lister - but I'll be getting back to that.

Can any of us imagine Rimmer declaring his undying love for Lister under anything but the most extreme circumstances?
I can't see him doing it, ever. Though, of course, a well-written story could probably convince me otherwise. ;)

Lister (for me at least), while in no way effeminate, has a kind of feminine softness about him, both physically and personally.
That's very interesting, because to me, he's one of the most masculine characters I know of. A super masculine man... who is also highly emotionally competent, and displays them openly without having any hang-ups about it. To me, that's a sign of true masculinity; he's so secure in his masculinity that he can cry; can openly display emotion.

In a couple of stories I've written with roadstergal, Rimmer has thought of, and/or accused Lister of being feminine, or some kind of half-man, half-woman like creature. I always found that very amusing, for the reasons specified above. When I asked roadstergal about it, she told me that Rimmer has very set ideas of what is male and female, and has trouble making sense of things that don't follow those rules, as it were. I think that's an accurate description.

As for wearing drag, could you ever see Rimmer in a dress? I certainly couldn't, but not because he's so masculine. I don't find him very masculine at all (not that this is a negative thing). It just wouldn't suit him. It's odd though; I've read so many stories where Rimmer is on top, and just can't see that happening; not after years of healthy sexual experiences, anyway. And I don't think he is a dominant person. I think it's a height thing, probably. It's a fannish stereotype that the shorter man is always the submissive. And oh, how my inner Lister laughs at that idea!

We can linger over every detail, confident that we have revealed nothing intimate of ourselves in doing so.
Except we do. Well, I do. And it think it would be hard for anyone not to, really. When I write Lister having sex, there's a lot of how I like to have sex in there. That's only natural. Not that I'd write him OOC to fit my own desires (this is what fanbrats do, and is how badfic happens), but where my own preferences coincide with what I see as his, I use them. And actually, when I write het, there's a lot less of me in the female characters than there is of me in Lister when I write RD slash. Writers, IMO, cannot help but put parts of themselves into their writing. And I think that's a good thing. It makes for variety and unique flavors.

Except for a few choice pages which contained the seeds of good ideas never completed or maybe a nice turn of phrase which could be re-used, I shredded the entire collection.
That's... very different from how I think. I keep everything I've written, no matter how bad. Yes, even my horrific Jim Carrey/Mary Sue RPS story from before I knew there was such a thing as fanfic. You say "writers cannot always afford to be sentimental," but I strongly disagree. I think we need to keep what we've done, because no matter how bad it is, it is a part of us, and represents part of our development. We shouldn't be ashamed of it. Without it, we wouldn't be where we are today. I just went through my old things just like you did, and I currently have all my old writings, every single thing I wrote since the age of seven, in two large boxes in my bedroom. They are among my most treasured possessions. They are part of me.

You are an excellent writer, and I hope to see more from you soon - and thank you for this interesting essay! I hope it promotes discussion. :)

[amy-wolf.livejournal.com]

As for wearing drag, could you ever see Rimmer in a dress?

You know the funny thing about this? Quarantine. And Demons and Angels. But still, people have a much easier time picturing Lister dressed as a woman.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

Well, yes. But I mean seriously. I think the reason they put Rimmer in drag in canon is precisely because he looks so out of place in it.

[felineranger.livejournal.com]

We all know that men just ain’t that good at emotion. It takes a bit of trauma for them to break down and admit that deep down they’re as romantic and slushy as we girls are.
That's quite a generalization. I'm not sure I agree, frankly. Stereotypically masculine men, yes. But those are not the only men in fandom. And look at Lister - but I'll be getting back to that.

I agree it is a generalization, but sadly I think it is a generalization that even in this day and age still holds water. I don't know any men in reality who are 100% comfortable with talking about or showing their emotions. This may be partly a cultural thing - we Brits are notoriously reserved - I was always taught while growing up that excessive displays of emotion are somewhat innappropriate and tacky (although I never believed it!)Of course there are men out there who can do it and we should treasure them. But I'd like to point out that even Lister struggles at times with hard emotions. Take Holoship for instance - he thinks Rimmer's about to be gone forever and what is his parting shot? 'See ya Smeghead'. We know and I suspect Rimmer knows that he means a whole lot more but he cant say it.

I've read so many stories where Rimmer is on top, and just can't see that happening;

Ah, the age-old debate of who goes on top! As you already know I see it the other way around but not because Lister's shorter or more submissive. Hell, any of us who know the character know that with a snap of his fingers Lister could have Rimmer underneath him reduced to a quivering mass of jelly. For the very reason that Lister is more confident and more adventurous, I think he'd be willing to take the 'submissive' role. He'd just see it as something new to try whereas Rimmer would see it as a loss of control and dignity. To begin with at least, I think Rimmer would be more comfortable in the traditional male role of being on top - it's safe, it's what he knows. Also I disagree with you that Rimmer is not a dominant character. He is dominant - he's just not very good at it, bless him :-) If there's one thing that Rimmer craves more than affection its authority and I think that would come out in his sex life. Lister met Low Rimmer, he knows the score, he'd lead Rimmer by the hand with the philosophy of 'I know this is what you want, I know you can't ask for it so I'm going to play along and let you think it was all your own idea'. After all, not being the one on top, doesn't mean you're not the one in control...

I feel I should reaffirm here that I don't consider Lister to be a feminine character - he isn't. But he does have elements to his character that are, perhaps wrongly, traditionally held to be more feminine such as sensitivity and as you say, emotional competence. I don't think I expressed that very well in the essay.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

You are probably right that it is cultural, but that only makes it more relevant really, given that RD is a British show. I have noticed that the British men I know IRL tend to be much more concerned with machismo than the Norwegian men I know. I suppose it only makes Lister an even more interesting character!

I disagree with your assessment of Rimmer as dominant, though I do agree that it can be supported by canon. I wouldn't find it OOC in a fic, if it was written well, but it's just not how I see him. I would love to discuss the whole sexual dynamic thing more, but it touches on some plot points in a WIP I'm writing, so I don't want to say too much about it. ;)

[sunny-bexster.livejournal.com]

Firstly - Fab essay.

When I first got into Red Dwarf and more specifically, Red Dwarf fanfictions, the idea of slash I admit, creeped me out a little. Perhaps it was because I was looking at the obvious too much rather than the subtle. Lister and Rimmer, as far as I was concerned, hated each other and the mere idea of them being in love or even just lust seemed alien to me. But then, and I can't actually recall what happened to changed my mind, I read something - a fic, I can't remember, but it was enough to change my mind and then I saw the kiss in Blue - the obvious was right there on screen, albeit it in a dream. Maybe as I got older, as I matured I started to look at Rimmer and Lister in different lights, they weren't just amusing characters any more, they became people and writing my own works led to see them more and more as actual, real individuals, which obviously made it rather difficult to distinguish reality from fantasy sometimes. As I read more and more into RD slash, I found myself straying away fro het fics, not out of spite but to me, and I apologise to anyone if this offends them, most of them smacked of Mary Sues - I'll hold my hands up on this one, I've wrote Mary Sues, heck I'm sure we all have - but there was something about het fics, as good as they were that seemed to deny the two characters of Rimmer and Lister from something....Friendship? Affection? Sex? Love?
The reason I think RD slash, most noteably between Rimmer and Lister works is becuase, deep down the pair just want to be loved. Look at Rimmer's childhood, the lack of friends, the career that he considers worthy enough to take the place of a lover in his life. Contrast this with Lister, abanndonned as a baby, clinging onto a brief liason with Kochanski - I always get the impression that Lister is terrified of being alone. The pair effectively want and need the same thing, no matter how much they might procrastinate that they are actually completely opposite.
I agree that a vaguely sensetive element in a character is likely to be exploited, take Lister - more often than not, and I admit I do this a lot, he is typecast into the subservient role in the relationship, he's the woman for want of a better word. Why? Purely because perhaps we see him as slightly more human that Rimmer, he's more emotive, more sensetive, more thoughtful - more feminine? Interesting point "I don’t think it’s a coincidence that in all the Red Dwarf slash fics I’ve read that touch on gender-play, it’s always Listy who ends up in drag " - because I am still currently writing a RD story where Lister is in drag, partly for comic effect and partly because there was so much material to run with!
I guess in the end, the concept of slash doesn't end with the attraction of two men - it runs much deeper, to me it lies with character, I also prefer canon pairings to totally random pairings (Voldemort and Harry? What in the world?!) and with Rimmer and Lister, there is so much to go with. Yes we've got the sexual frustration, the lack of affection, the necessity of company but we've also got the conflicting personalities, something which truly makes Red Dwarf, Lister needs Rimmer around to make him more orderly, more grown up and Rimmer in turn needs Lister to make him lighten up. The pair need each other and as slash writers, we take that concept on board and bring out something truly beautiful.
I never claim to be a good slash writer, far from it, my early stuff was badly written, cliched and demonstrated an acute lack of knowledge of everything. But I read other slasher's stuff and I smile - simply because it's so brilliant and at the same time so simple, the one shots that frequently appear on RDSS are superb, it's often one lines that sets off a short story, no more than a few hundred words but what is said in those few hundred words is so meaningful and so true, it's no wonder we all get a little excited about it.
I'd better end this now, before I ramble on a bit more, but once again, your essay was brilliant, I don't think I've ever agreed on so many points raised as I have just now! Bravo and I also agree that we all should keep writing, if not for the sake of our sanity!

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

I always get the impression that Lister is terrified of being alone.
I think you're right. In a way. He enjoys his own company, I think, but it's more... he needs interaction, and he's a very touch-y, physical person. This, of course, only aggravates the R/L UST frustration. ;)

I agree about character being paramount; I ship pairings that make sense to me and that I like, irrespective of gender. :)

[sunny-bexster.livejournal.com]

I get teased mercilessly by my friend Martyn for liking slash, he says that homoeroticism is my forte. I've wailed to him on many an occasion that it needs to be about character! There has to be some chemistry....although that doesn't explains Hollister/Lister *cringes* I guess I was willing to ignore my own theory when I wrote that!

But Lister and Rimmer works, I was actually surprised that a few people I've spoke to recently just couldn't see the slashiness of R/L - alright, if you take the episodes at purely face value, the pair loathe each other but when you look deeper, delve into implied meanings, numerous references, backstories, 'in jokes' - there's this whole world of longed for affection.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

Nothing should be taken at face value. That's boring!

And I love a bit of crackfic. It made me laugh, and was actually perfectly IC (if you disregard the fact that I doubt Lister would ever go for Hollister. But, you know, apart from that. ;))

[sunny-bexster.livejournal.com]

Why thank you pet! Whenever people find out that I wrote that pairing they ask "where the hell did that come from?" - Honestly, I haven't a clue, it just...appeared!

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

I wrote Rimmer/Hollister. I know how you feel.

[felineranger.livejournal.com]

I agree. We need fics that make us laugh, it shuldn't all be about angst, gloom and doom!

[the-summoning-d.livejournal.com]

Hmm. Not quite sure where to start here. Oh well, here goes.

I've been into slash for about four years now, give or take, but until quite recently I found myself unable to even contemplate Red Dwarf slash. Not because the subtext wasn't there - god how it's there, in places it just becomes text - but because I've been watching RD since before I could talk, and thinking about our boys doing naughty things was a bit like thinking about your parents. But for the last while...hell, there weren't any other taboos I hadn't broken yet: let's go for it!

To make my mark on the A/S/O gradient, I'm a female teenage bisexual. And yes, I freely admit to being a pervert. My mind is right at home in the gutter - it's warm and comfortable and all my friends are here.

A few points. Firstly, I don't see Lister as being at all feminine. More that he's comfortable enough with who and what he is that he doesn't even think about whether what he's doing is traditionally 'macho' if you see what I mean (His reaction to Kochanski's suggestion that her Dave was gay seemed very out of character to me). But again, Lister being the one in drag when gender-play occurs seems more natural to me, because it wouldn't bother him the way it would Rimmer. Likewise, I see Listy topping - more confident, more experienced, less likely to panic.

Personally I enjoy hurt/comfort because I like to show that characters people might consider weak can cope with extremely unpleasant situations, and that the one to understand and help them can be the most unlikely of people.

(And on a side-note, I got suckered into the frightening world of Vimes/Vetinari a while ago: is there medication for this condition?)

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

(His reaction to Kochanski's suggestion that her Dave was gay seemed very out of character to me).
I agree. But then again, you could see it as him realizing that if he were gay, that would mean those feeling he has for Rimmer were... No. No, obviously he can't be gay!

;)

[laurenthemself]

Vimes/Vetinari is made of win, if written well. And it's better when it doesn't devolve into PWP, but instead the sexual aspects of the relationship are emphasised without pr0n. I've read a couple of fics like that, but stuffed if I can remember where. Skyehawke, probably; the Discworld section over there is marvellous.

[amy-wolf.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those lesbian slashers you hear about (which would be a good lead-in for a horror novel) and more interested in slash-as-stories or slash-as-character-development than the specifically sexual, so my perspective might be a bit different.

A big part of what I like about fanfiction is taking what's on the source material, and pushing it to become something different; something that isn't the same as the source, but connects to it. Slash is an obvious way to go, because it's taking this interesting, complex dynamic between two male (or female; I also do femmeslash) characters, and adding this new element. I don't think it should be taboo, because I see nothing wrong with two men getting together, and it sometimes turns out really interesting. I'm actually more turned-on by femmeslash, but a lot of the stories that draw me in are mainly about guys, and I find it more interesting to see what adding a sexual element does to the characters I'm more invested in and prone to identify with than characters which are hardly there.

Slash now seems to be a part of many fangirl fantasies – which suggests a major shift in both social attitudes and female sexuality.

I don't think it's as much of a shift. More a case of being able to admit it and express it. Not only can you find a group of like-minded people without having to declare yourself first, but even if you do run into people who don't agree, the relative anonymity makes it less likely that they'll be trouble in your every day life.

I think what we really like in these stories isn’t the suffering itself (none of us actually approve of rape whether it’s male, female or anything else – at least I hope), it’s the emotions that it brings out in our heroes.

I agree with you here. Extremes bring out new emotions. People react differently when things get bad, and there a lot in those reactions.

Personally, I don't much care how the characters react in typical instances of character-torture (there seems to be a set of cross-fandom cliches; being depressed, crying it all out, then comfort sex), so my big thing is to work out how to make them react in a way that isn't like that, but is like the character, and does feel like they're suffering.

There's also a social aspect. A couple of my fandoms have nearly no non-slash fic, or little in the way of non-slash fannishness. If I get into a show because of a slasher, I'm more likely to join the slash com. Ditto if it has people I know. I joined Red Dwarf Slash because it had a lot of well-written fic. So someone who's moderately into slash can get drawn in for social reasons.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm one of those lesbian slashers you hear about (which would be a good lead-in for a horror novel)

Dude, I would pay actual money to read that novel! Write it!

Slash now seems to be a part of many fangirl fantasies – which suggests a major shift in both social attitudes and female sexuality.
I don't think it's as much of a shift. More a case of being able to admit it and express it.

Surely that's a shift in itself? The fact that so many of us are willing to seek out these sites and openly discuss these things even if it is anonymous? The fact that this community exists to begin with?

[mandy-kay43.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm 46, professional female, married & parent to 3 young adults (23-19) who know I read and write fanfic and original fic, but not excatly what. I think 19yo believes I write about Paris/Torres & Janeway/Chakotay because he knows I'm a Voyager fan. He'd be wrong there, because J/C, P/T and C/7 are my least faves. C/P is my #1 pairing, but I don't stick at just them. But I wasn't involved back in the 70s, or even the 80s or the 90s. I didn't even start reading slash until 2002/2003 and I wrote my first slash fic in 2004. Thank goodness the Skippy the Bush Kangaroo fic, complete with a total Mary-Sue who was in a wheelchair and made a miraculous recovery thanks to Skippy and the older brother, Mark (I didn't much care for Sonny)that I wrote at 12 never saw the light of day!
I read a far wider variety than I write - all version of Trek, but not all pairings, H/P - usally Snape-centric, some H/D and crack pairings, House, B5, Farscape, The Sentinel, SGA, SG1, Malory Towers, St Clares, Chalet School, and I follow recs to all sorts of fandoms. As for Red Dwarf - just started reading that this year, which is odd, because we have all the DVDs, we taped the specials and the cooking show, we play the Red Dwarf Drinking game with friends, 4 out of 5 in the family can quote whole chunks of script and dance to Tongue Tied - how sad is that? So I don't know why I've taken so long to get to Red Dwarf slash - perhaps because it's such a family activity.
So what do I get out of slash that reading a bunch of Harlequin romances doesn't supply for me? The familiarity with the characters has to figure somewhere, otherwise I may as well stick with original fic. I was going to say the men, but I read f/f too, maybe not as frequently, okay a lot less frquently and I'm a little more selective about the pairings, but it's not just the men. The sex? Depends on who writes it. Perhaps it's simply the further exploration of character and the chance to take that in a different direction. I don't know.
I still plan to write my RD/Voy xovers and it's a given they'll be slash, and I'll share them with my on-line friends and not my RL friends.
Thanks for a thought-provoking essay that's still provoking thoughts.

[laurenthemself]

I have a feeling that no amount of torture and pain would be enough to make Vimes admit that actually he quite fancies Captain Carrot. But I suppose wish-fulfilment is the main reason why fan-fic exists...

The first thing I thought of when you said that was this fic. Admittedly Carrot’s the one getting tortured, not Vimes, but that was my first association.

For any woman writing a love scene between a man she’s attracted to and another woman it’s hard to keep the dreaded Mary-Sue at bay.

But Sues are fun, and a fundamental part of fandom. I personally think it’s great for every fic writer to write at least one Sue, whether they post it for public consumption or not. Mine’s Kyla from the Bonding Trilogy and, to a lesser extent, Shayne from Floor 13, since I’ve got a thing for both Rimmer and Kochanski. This also explains the Taking Liberties series, where the two of them are partnered up with female!Holly in a convenient hologrammatic form.

As for the Society... I can remember when there were, like, six of us. Now there are 471 (!!!), and although not everyone is a contributing writer, we couldn't have a better group of like-minded people if we tried.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

I agree that there is such a thing as a well-written Sue. Of course, I identify with Lister to the point where I feel I don't need a Sue, but it would have been nice to y'know, have had sex with him at one point. I suppose that's why I've written, I think, several Lister/Lister stories. ;)

The closest thing I've come to an OC Sue is Ilse from Listerworld, but given that she's a female Lister-clone, that's pretty much inevitable.

[hlglne.livejournal.com]

I don't need a 'marysue' in Star Wars anymore, but then perhaps it's because i only slash there. Here in RD I just read for jollies.

And believe me, I am OLD....

nice essay btw.