Under other conditions ...

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

(I'm whiling away a couple of minutes waiting for a press conference to begin, so I thought I'd ask a question that's been hitting my brain for a while. I don't know if it's been asked before - but I will now.)

How do you guys see a relationship between Lister and Rimmer surviving under "normal" conditions attained after everything they've been through - that is, what if they DID get back to Earth like Lister says he wants, and there were people and jobs and homes and everyday concerns and just things we think of as "normal life?"

I guess what I'm wondering is if they were able to hammer out a romantic relationship as they are, would it hold up under other social conditions, all else being equal? I guess you should also consider the whole angle of homophobia as playing a part, if you think it still would be a problem in 3 million years. I'm not sure it would - I guess what I'm thinking of is more "oh, we're not the last two people left after all, anymore - hmm, do I still want you?"

Geez, I hope this makes some sense on the screen like it does in my head ....

Comments

[chrisscorkscrew.livejournal.com]

I see R/L in the same way Kryten did. Do you remember when Lister professed a desire to have dinner parties and start wearing clogs since he'd settled down with Kochanski. Well I see that for him and Rimmer.

Frankly after all they've been through, a little conventionality might come as a relief!

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

When was that? Was it an episode or a book? They run together in my brain from years ago and recently, and it's tough to remember references sometimes. *G*

[chrisscorkscrew.livejournal.com]

Wasn't that Series 7 - Duct Soup. Kryten starting imagining how he would be squeezed out if Lister and Kochanski got together.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

It has been a bit since I saw that. I need to go back and see it again. (With the added bonus of Lister in his short thermals ...)

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

I dunno; I've always thought that one of the reasons why Rimmer and Lister manage to survive (well, sort of, in Rimmer's case) is because they manage to live relatively normal lives despite of the situation they are in. Lister, in particular, make a point of celebrating Christmas and birthdays and going through the motions of civilization despite the fact that civilization, as they know it, is dead. Rimmer does the same, except, as with everything he does, in a neurotic, crazy sort of way. They're really good at coping, is the thing. Which is not to say that returning to "normal" life wouldn't be a challenge... but not to their relationship, I don't think.

The challenge, as you touch upon, is for them to manage to hammer out a romantic relationship in the first place. Having managed that, a mere change of scenery isn't going to make them fall apart. Though Rimmer will worry that it will. But that's Rimmer. That's his job.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

My guess is that Rimmer's biggest worry in a population would be that Lister would find a replacement who is everything Rimmer suspects he is not. (Though maybe by that point he'd be more self-confident and it would be more of a moot issue. I'd rather see Rimmer confident enough by then to handle it, because I mean, anyone - if you can't see the good in yourself, you can't expect someone else to and you're going to always be suspicious of them).

Then again, maybe he'd be spending all his time rescuing drowned sheep or outfitting horses on Fiji with life preservers, to devote time to worrying if he's good enough for Lister. *G*

[kathie-d.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I can't help thinking that it would fall apart. To hold a relationship together through such a BIG CHANGE would take a hell of a lot of work. I could see Lister yeah, happily dreaming of clogs and dinner parties, but I could equally imagine Rimmer freaking out, and running away to do something 'he'd never had the chance to do' like University or something. And then failing at it miserably. Question is... would he go back?

Ooh, there's a great fic in that somewhere!

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

Obviously Rimmer would freak out, but Rimmer would freak out regardless. IMO, if they actually managed to get a relationship going, that would be such a miracle in itself that it would be enough to withstand anything.

[kathie-d.livejournal.com]

I suppose there's also the argument that they might have been living together for so long, that now no longer know how to live apart, regardless of whether or not they managed to establish a relationship.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah. That's just canon. :)

[kathie-d.livejournal.com]

Heh. :D

[laurenthemself]

This is exactly the tack that I took when playing Lister at capeandcowl, although he does have his own flat, he spends a lot of time at Rimmer's place (it's complicated somewhat by the fact that Rimmer's engaged; he's been in the game longer).

[ajrimmer-ssc.livejournal.com]

it's complicated somewhat by the fact that Rimmer's engaged

And Lister has a massive crush on Rimmer's fiancee. XD

[outofstasis.livejournal.com]

And on any woman who'll talk to him for more than two minutes, really. *coughs*Liadrin*coughs* Unfortunately they're all taken.

Not his fault he keeps ending up in bed with her. Sure it's totally platonic, but still.

[ajrimmer-ssc.livejournal.com]

I still say we hook Lister up with Kory. He needs more hot alien princesses in his life.

[outofstasis.livejournal.com]

Anyone's* got to be better than Dr Horrible.



*anyone who's not Joker, any of the other villains, any of the other guys, or Mothchan, that is.

[ajrimmer-ssc.livejournal.com]

LISTER/MOTHCHAN OTP

/stops dropping C&C injokes on poor Veronica's post

/derp

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

C&C? (Oh, should I ask?)

.....

(Yeah, I'll ask.)

[ajrimmer-ssc.livejournal.com]

Cape & Cowl, that RPG that Lauren and I play in that she linked up there. ;)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Ah, but what if Rimmer was doing something that made him happy - like art or design school (which I suspect he'd do smashingly well at) - and in turn, was able to offer an improved self to Lister as a partner?

/devil's advocate

[thickets.livejournal.com]

I love this

I desperately want fic with Rimmer in school doing something that he loves. Whether it's AU or futurefic as described by the OP ...

...ah I am a sucker for fluff.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

*nods* So am I. Angst has its place, but ... the idea of an AU with student!Rimmer and student!Lister and student!cast somehow at the university level, with Lister secretly wanting to be an engineer but knowing he doesn't have quite enough drive for the right classes ....

[kathie-d.livejournal.com]

Ah, there was some fic wasn't there, which suggested that Rimmer would have been great at design school. All those years of carefully colouring in the maps...

That would be equally interesting to see. Maybe Rimmer would have learnt enough from his experience on RD to not screw up this time?

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Hmm ... you make me want to write ... or want to see YOU write ... LOL.

[artfullola.livejournal.com]

I've always admired the idea of Rimmer as the (secretly) creative type. Thanks to gemjam's lovely fic 'Here Be Dragons', I can't look at a colouring book without thinking of him! Perhaps one of the reasons he failed his Astronavigation exams so many times is because becoming an officer is just not meant to be.

I can definitely see him becoming a designer/cartographer/artist/etc. Whether he can let go his neuroses and hang ups long enough to realise his potential and commit himself to actually do it and fit it in to Lister's chosen lifestyle is another kettle of fish!

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I love that fic too! The bit with him "delicately shading the tiger's fur" is just too cute.

Thanks to Nat, I see the artist thing, too. At any rate, he just needs to do something that's not paramilitary. Even Ace wasn't military - he was an independent contractor having adventures, and that's why he was GOOD at it.

[laurenthemself]

I think if they'd already established a relationship then it'd probably hold up to 'normal life' as well as any relationship does; they'd have a different set of stressors and problems and whatnot, but considering how prone to hanging onto fantasies they both are (Rimmer is not as open as Lister in this regard, but he is still mentally hanging onto McGruder in a way very similar to the way Lister's still dreaming of Kochanski), if they turned that... that clinginess onto one another, then IMHO it'd be pretty hard to shake.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

but he is still mentally hanging onto McGruder in a way very similar to the way Lister's still dreaming of Kochanski

I did not think of that, but it makes sense, if that's the first thing (well, behind short Corsican dictators) Rimmer's mind went for in BTL.

if they turned that... that clinginess onto one another

Nope, I'm sorry. I'm afraid I just don't see it. You're going to have to demonstrate. I demand fic.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

I think she's mentioned still in S8, too. Although obviously that's a slightly different Rimmer... ;) (Although S8's a proposition all by itself, since even in the prison, it takes away all the things that both might blame for their unhappiness or even tactit friendship - Kochanski's back, Rimmer's alive, there are other people for them to associate with beyond each other, Kryten and Cat - and they're still in the pattern of relying on each other solely.)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

It would seem a Rimmer and a Lister need each other in some way in any dimension, doesn't it? *G*

[dogwoodblossom.livejournal.com]

Sorry, my first thought when I read this was, "What? On Fiji?" Rimmer would wear a white dress and ride the horses.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

SMEG. You know what I just got a mental image of?

"Look at me. Now look at your man. Now back to ME. Here's an oyster with two tickets to that thing you love. Now it's DIAMONDS. I'm on a horse!"

[ajrimmer-ssc.livejournal.com]

........oh you bitch. XD

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

"I'M RIDING A HORSE BACKWARDS."

Cat would SO fit right into those commercials. (Actually, I wouldn't mind seeing all of them have a go at doing it. At least Rimmer'd be able to duplicate the guy's voice.) :-PP

[ajrimmer-ssc.livejournal.com]

KRYTEN: In the absence of smelling like WD-40, I occasionally like to douse myself in alcohol-based scents such as Old Spice. What this has to do with mollusks is beyond me. Also, this sweater that just dropped on my shoulders is badly in need of laundering.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

CAT: HelLO, ladycats! Look at me - now look at that pathetic monkey you're with. Now back at me. I have SIX nipples, and they're all tingling! Sadly, your monkey can't be a cat, but he could smell like one if you doused him in some milk and fish oil treatment. Now look at me - I'm on a ship. And I've got that hairbrush you've been eying. And a mirror. And a- Ooooooh, Cat, you look FINE, buddy! Look at me ... that's right, look at ME, Reflection ...

[ajrimmer-ssc.livejournal.com]

...............you win. XD

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Actually, I was hoping between us we could get all four of them in here.

Come on. You know who you want to do next. XD

[ajrimmer-ssc.livejournal.com]

FIIIIIIINE.

RIMMER: You know, honestly, this sort of thing is just absurd in the face of it. First of all, oysters don't actually hold tickets, and diamonds are manufactured by one of the most evil corporations ever to exist on Earth. Horses are completely unreliable and spook at the slightest provocation, and boats sink.

And don't even get me started on the inherently disgusting notion that wearing a particular brand of aftershave will get and hold the attention of some woman. If that worked, I'd have done it years ago. Women are fickle like that.

I don't find this commercial funny at all. Puerile tosh.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. I snorted water when I read this originally and it's taken this long for my keyboard to be repaired. /cackles

LISTER: (drops towel, just stands there naked) Do I really need to make some speech, now, really?

[cheezdanish.livejournal.com]

HAHAHAHAHAHA love it. XD

[kathie-d.livejournal.com]

Seconded! You win the internets!

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Oh, good! I have a place for a couple right over here ...

[ajrimmer-ssc.livejournal.com]

I've always seen Rimmer as being ridiculously clingy, part and parcel of his fear of rejection. And never able to let anything go. So regardless of his own self-sabotaging ways, he'd do his level best to keep hold of ANYTHING like that, and to hell with the circumstances.

Up to and including driving Lister absolutely BONKERS with his constant nagging questions like "You still love me, right? We're still together, right? You better not go anywhere or I'll be miserable forever."

Emotional manipulation to the max, in other words.

/posting with RP account sup guys

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Lister would usually go along with it, or lightly slap his hand away or something, but every once in a while he'd just have to bellow 'DOWN, BOY!'

Rimmer, Job One: Emotional Tonka Toys *G*

[meraman.livejournal.com]

I don't think you can easily break up a disfunctional, co-dependant relationship like theirs. They'll part ways for a while, then seek eachother out. It's inevitable.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Well, the series certainly agrees with you. They do find their way back to each other more than once, don't they? *G*