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reddwarfslashThis isn't slashy, I guess, per se (though we can get our slash out of canon, too, really - so choose your poison). But I need to distract myself from stuff going on IRL, so I thought I'd put to you all the questions I put to Nat this past weekend for fun.
Last week, I went on a city ghost walk; I like the history more than the ghost stories, and if you have a reputable guide, these are a good way to learn some of the more interesting elements of a local area's past. But I was thinking at one point as we were in transit between one locale and another - okay, let's assume for purposes of discussion there are such things as ghosts. (Let's also assume we're going to up-end Rob Grant's apple cart and drag the paranormal into Red Dwarf, instead of sticking strictly to sci-fi - or, hell, treat the paranormal as scientific in some way we can't yet explain well.) Thousands of people (in the book, there were over 11,000), most fairly young and prime, were killed instantly by the cadmium leak blast that precipitates the whole series. This are fact.
Let's assume an old saw about ghosts, that most hang around when they have unfinished business or died an unnatural or violent death (i.e., not of natural illness or old age - no time to get used to the idea). First of all, wouldn't there be a fair number of ghosts haunting Red Dwarf after the nuclear blast? If so, is there any way any of them could last three million years into our series "present" or would they all have long faded by then?
Second, and just a sub-tangent I put to Nat was, I find it very hard to believe that EVERY human was killed on that ship in the blast - they might not have been able to inbreed and survive long enough to see Lister come out of stasis, granted. But it's stated, again in the book, that Holly shut off a huge part of the lower decks to contain the blast - enough to protect Frankenstein and provide a pretty damn big "safe" area for an entire cat city and ten or so FLOORS of food and supplies to be worked through by them in that time. Are we really expected to believe there were no workers doing inventory or unloading, or rearranging, or stocking, or anything in those lower decks, out of 11,000 JMC employees on the same ship? So if any of those people survived, even if they don't manage to breed well enough to keep humans going until Lister's reanimation, they could've been haunted by those ghosts. Wouldn't there be some journals or recorded diaries or something, perhaps, to be found by Lister & Co.? (Perhaps there were so few their "lines" died off relatively early and Holly doesn't remember them - like he forgot other things. Hence a good reason we wouldn't have known about it.)
Third - if some ghosts could last three million years, is it possible Rimmer could be one of them? And what would holo-Rimmer do upon running into ghost-Rimmer? Or ghost-Kochanski? Ghost-anyone-you-want? I suppose there's some dark comedy to be had in Lister mistaking ghost-Rimmer somehow for holo-Rimmer.
Mods, if you think it's not relevant enough, let me know or take it down and I don't mind. Just seeing what others have to say.
Last week, I went on a city ghost walk; I like the history more than the ghost stories, and if you have a reputable guide, these are a good way to learn some of the more interesting elements of a local area's past. But I was thinking at one point as we were in transit between one locale and another - okay, let's assume for purposes of discussion there are such things as ghosts. (Let's also assume we're going to up-end Rob Grant's apple cart and drag the paranormal into Red Dwarf, instead of sticking strictly to sci-fi - or, hell, treat the paranormal as scientific in some way we can't yet explain well.) Thousands of people (in the book, there were over 11,000), most fairly young and prime, were killed instantly by the cadmium leak blast that precipitates the whole series. This are fact.
Let's assume an old saw about ghosts, that most hang around when they have unfinished business or died an unnatural or violent death (i.e., not of natural illness or old age - no time to get used to the idea). First of all, wouldn't there be a fair number of ghosts haunting Red Dwarf after the nuclear blast? If so, is there any way any of them could last three million years into our series "present" or would they all have long faded by then?
Second, and just a sub-tangent I put to Nat was, I find it very hard to believe that EVERY human was killed on that ship in the blast - they might not have been able to inbreed and survive long enough to see Lister come out of stasis, granted. But it's stated, again in the book, that Holly shut off a huge part of the lower decks to contain the blast - enough to protect Frankenstein and provide a pretty damn big "safe" area for an entire cat city and ten or so FLOORS of food and supplies to be worked through by them in that time. Are we really expected to believe there were no workers doing inventory or unloading, or rearranging, or stocking, or anything in those lower decks, out of 11,000 JMC employees on the same ship? So if any of those people survived, even if they don't manage to breed well enough to keep humans going until Lister's reanimation, they could've been haunted by those ghosts. Wouldn't there be some journals or recorded diaries or something, perhaps, to be found by Lister & Co.? (Perhaps there were so few their "lines" died off relatively early and Holly doesn't remember them - like he forgot other things. Hence a good reason we wouldn't have known about it.)
Third - if some ghosts could last three million years, is it possible Rimmer could be one of them? And what would holo-Rimmer do upon running into ghost-Rimmer? Or ghost-Kochanski? Ghost-anyone-you-want? I suppose there's some dark comedy to be had in Lister mistaking ghost-Rimmer somehow for holo-Rimmer.
Mods, if you think it's not relevant enough, let me know or take it down and I don't mind. Just seeing what others have to say.
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no subject
Date: 2012-06-11 08:14 pm (UTC)You make a very good point about the improbability of everyone dying. And of course Holly could forget.
I think there have been rumours floating around about the possibility that they find a new area of the ship in RDX. (Nothing to do with the ep I saw, which had no such plot.)
There's definitely a funny or scary fic to be had from this. I suppose it could also be slashy. ;)
no subject
Date: 2012-06-11 08:15 pm (UTC)Given that all of those people died in shock, they very well could be floating around with seriously unfinished business. Generally, when you have hauntings it is because of a sudden death. I don't think Kochanski would be a ghost, she doesn't seem like she would have the unfinished business that some others might.
Thank you for bringing this up. (I'll thank you for it when in four months I finally get the Ghost story wrote.)
I also got a small plot bunny for the survivors thing...
no subject
Date: 2012-06-11 08:17 pm (UTC)I think it would very intriguing to run into some ghosts of the crew. And I would wonder what they would think of the antics of Lister and Company. I think the emotions would run the gambit between amusement and bitterness. I could definitely see some "fly on the wall" stories springing from this.
On the other hand, since it has been so long, (and if ghosts were to exist in this universe) it makes me wonder if their energy would have long since dissipated. When I hear talk of ghosts, I have yet to hear about, say, a caveman ghost. You always hear about ghosts from a couple of centuries back to present day.
On the third question: I find this question intriguing as well, and have thought along similar lines. What would the original Rimmer think of Holographic Rimmer? For me they are two very separate entities. The original stopped "growing" when he died, along with his attitudes and the way he viewed the world. The holographic Rimmer has evolved over time, even if he may protest that fact. He's made choices that the original never had to and has confessed to things the original would be mortified over. I don't think the original Rimmer would be able to relate to the hologram very well. And vice versa. Though I do see room for comedy. It makes me wonder who could be able to see the ghosts. My first instincts say: Cat and possibly Rimmer.
Anyway, great questions! I look forward to reading other's thoughts.
no subject
Date: 2012-06-11 08:47 pm (UTC)Regarding Rimmer, we see some of that in "Me2" when his duplicate points out that Lister's changed him. Of course there's also a huge difference between Series 1 and BTE / Series X Rimmer. :D
no subject
Date: 2012-06-11 11:53 pm (UTC)Awesome! \o/
As for Rimmer, you're right. It's been so long since I've seen those episodes I forgot. :)
no subject
Date: 2012-06-12 09:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-06-13 09:20 am (UTC)I have sometimes wondered. If you believe that ghosts often occur wherever something tragic or violent happened, I could see Red Dwarf being just littered with ghosts. I can imagine a radiation blast to the face is violent enough for anyone to 'forget' to just be dead now.
The idea of radiation mutated, inter-bred staff lurking on the lower floors of Red Dwarf's decks is terrifying. I love it!
no subject
Date: 2012-06-13 06:36 pm (UTC)Oh God, I'm rambling again, and probably not making much sense. Sorry. Anyway, yes-meeting Red Dwarf's ghosts would be very cool.
no subject
Date: 2012-06-13 11:48 pm (UTC)