Query

Jun. 29th, 2012 05:54 pm
[identity profile] felineranger.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] reddwarfslash
Hi everyone

I have an idea for a fic but before I run with it I just wanted to double check something with the hive mind!  As far as I can remember, there is no canon explanation for what happened to Listers adoptive mother - we know his dad died at 6 and between 11-13 he was living with his gran and after that ended up in an orphanage school but  I don't think we're ever told exactly why?  Have I missed something or is there a generally accepted fanon explanation?  Answers on a postcard please...

Date: 2012-06-29 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bayliss.livejournal.com
???? I don't know if he had an adoptive mom. If he did I don't recall hearing about her.

Date: 2012-06-29 05:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janamelie.livejournal.com
I can't remember his adoptive mum ever being mentioned, but I may have forgotten a book reference. I'm sure he probably had one, simply because adoption agencies tend to be pretty strict about who they allow to adopt. I can't see his gran and dad being considered suitable, simply because it's usually couples who adopt kids.

I stress this isn't MY opinion, just what I imagine an adoption agency would think.

Date: 2012-06-29 06:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] veronica-rich.livejournal.com
His father could have been a single man who adopted - single women do it all the time, and some men, too, now. If you extrapolate 150 years into the future, well, things might be more liberal then. The thing I keep in mind, at least, is if he DID have just a single adoptive dad, there's a good chance the man might have had a modest fortune or was well-known for something or other. It's not cheap to adopt, for one, and I gather it's especially difficult for a single person to do so unless they're doing really well in life. (Plus, I always remember about his school trip to Paris in high school - that would be like an American kid being able to go on a school trip to NYC or something if they lived in the Midwest, and that takes some dough.)

But yeah, even a couple adopting would have had to have some money to do it. But to get back to the OP's question, the Kryten line below is the only reference I can remember. And even that's goofy, because remember how Lister made such a big deal about never having had a mum in "The Last Day?" You would think if there'd been an adoptive mother, he would have referred to her, at the very least (even to say that she died when he was very young or some such - hell, he could've gotten double the sympathy for having lost TWO mothers!).

This just reinforces my feeling that each successive episode of Red Dwarf is taking place in a different dimension where canon deviated just slightly from the previous episode/dimension.

Date: 2012-06-29 07:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janamelie.livejournal.com
Good point about the inconsistency with "The Last Day". Another of Rob and Doug's plot holes. ;) And yes, in the future attitudes to adoption may well be more relaxed.

It doesn't necessarily cost that much money for a British schoolkid to visit Paris though - I went with my A-Level college when I was 17 and there are deals available for students. I also visited Cologne when I was about 14 or 15 with my school and again, deals were made. It may have been an exchange thing; I can't remember. But my school wasn't a fee-paying one.

Date: 2012-06-29 06:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janamelie.livejournal.com
Additional: Duh! Just remembered this dialogue from "Kryten":

Kryten - I was created to serve. That is my purpose, to serve others and have no regard for myself.

Lister - You're beginning to sound like my Mum!

Date: 2012-06-30 02:08 am (UTC)
ext_14419: the mouse that wants Arthur's brain (Default)
From: [identity profile] derien.livejournal.com
I think that's just a phrase. You know, like Kryten sounds as if he's trying to be a Mum.

Date: 2012-06-30 06:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janamelie.livejournal.com
I realise it's a phrase, but he could actually be referring to his (adoptive) Mum. It's open to interpretation.

Date: 2012-07-01 03:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] veronica-rich.livejournal.com
True, but the fact he said "my Mum" instead of "a mum" or "somebody's mum" is what makes some people think "oh, maybe he meant his mom." Rob and Doug are good at leaving enough room for fans to enjoy canon their way, it seems. *G*

Date: 2012-06-29 06:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sunny-bexster.livejournal.com
I'd always interpreted it as Lister was in the orphanage before being adopted, and sometime after his dad dying and his gran taking over raising him. His mother only gets the one reference I think. More references are made re his Nan.

I'd love to see this section of Lister's childhood explained. Rimmer harps on about his smeggy upbringing, but there's never been anything to suggest Lister's upbringing/family circumstances were any less dire.

Date: 2012-06-29 08:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janamelie.livejournal.com
I always imagined the crucial difference to be that the people who looked after Lister loved him. Of course there may be other factors such as personality - he just seems naturally optimistic.

In an AU fic by Diminua, Rimmer (who's considerably different to our Rimmer; his Lister is basically the same) thinks to himself that it's not surprising Lister was adopted quickly as he was probably a smiley, instantly lovable child. This Rimmer, on the other hand, was taken away from his parents when their abuse was discovered and has grown up in care. He believes that his carers only looked after him because it was their job. He's reserved and wary of others, but has accepted his homosexuality and is more at peace with himself than our Rimmer. Especially when he and Lister get together. :)

EDIT: Here's the relevant chapter of the fic in question: http://diminua.livejournal.com/26540.html
Edited Date: 2012-06-29 08:18 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-06-29 09:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] janamelie.livejournal.com
Hmmm, interesting. I've never thought of Lister as having low self-esteem, I must say. Except possibly about his weight in "Bodyswap".

The "Kryten" quote, which is all we have to go on, does suggest a woman with a martyr complex. You might also want to think about the references in "Duct Soup" to Lister being overweight for a couple of years in his teens.

Date: 2012-07-02 03:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] fantasysci5.livejournal.com
Wow. I never thought of Lister's issues, since Rimmer's were always more "in your face". But now that you mention it, I can see it! Thanks for the eye opener! :P

Date: 2012-06-29 11:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] veronica-rich.livejournal.com
Boy, I hope nobody pounds me for this, but remember, it's just trying to help, and I'm not saying this applies to all children given up ... There is thought in some psych circles that children abandoned by birth parents face an identity crisis at a particular stage, like young teen years. The thought process behind this being "why didn't my mother want me?" (much like some kids blame themselves for a divorce). This could impact one's self-esteem, I suppose. I'm not adopted, so I can't say. But I did know one girl who just wrecked her teen and adult life with such an identity crisis based on being given up and despite being adopted by caring parents.

But again, take it as a guide for fic, that someone could have that kind of issue (as the young woman I know does), not my expert opinion on psychology. Because I'm so not.

Date: 2012-06-29 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gemjam.livejournal.com
You know, I never really thought of him as being officially adopted, more just taken care of and raised by one of the guys from the poolhall where he was found, so it would make sense for a mum not to be involved in that scenario but a gran to be in the picture. I don't know how well that actually fits in with canon now that I stop and think about it but somehow that's always the impression that I got from his childhood. I'm probably way off base. Wasn't there a mention of his mum when he was talking about his dad dying? Was his mum the one who said his dad had gone to the same place as his goldfish? I wish I had a better memory.

Date: 2012-07-01 03:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nice-girls-play.livejournal.com
In the episode Better Than Life, he mentions his grandmother trying to explain about where his father went. But he also uses the plural form when he talks about his family sending him to a child psychologist afterward. So, possible there were other family members involved in that decision.

Date: 2012-07-01 03:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gemjam.livejournal.com
Ah, right, thanks for the reminder :)

Date: 2012-07-19 03:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alararose.livejournal.com
I submitted a comment anonymously as I didn't have an account at the time, but it hasn't been posted, so I'll try to remember as best I can what I put. Basically, in one of the books (spoilers:) we find out why our Lister and psycho Lister are so different, and it's because of the adoptive parents he chose. Our Lister chose kind people; psycho Lister chose rich people and that adoptive mom was a bit... unbalanced. I don't remember the entire bit, but it might help someone know where to look to see if there's a bit more info on our Lister's mom there. And, of course, that depends on whether or not you want to pull book-verse info into your story or not. Good luck!

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