discussion about a fairly big plot point in RDX via BTE

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I was listening to a Ganymede & Titan podcast on Back to Earth on my drive home today and a point they brought up made me think of something else. It's not slashy, per se, but I do think it's germane to this community, both sort of from that perspective and just because we all love discussing Dwarf so much.

Someone from G&T said they thought in BTE, Katarina represents Rimmer's need to get one-up on a superior officer and shove her in front of a bus - that his consciousness supplied it to make him happy, via the elation squid. They also said this is how Rimmer can get away with "killing" a fellow hologram without actually committing any sort of "murder" - since they're all in a mass hallucination where nothing is real, anyway.

Except for those of us watching the show, according to Kryten. (I just watched the part after Lister wakes up from the hallucination again, so I'd be fresh on these points.) He said due to quantum mechanics, we're all real, in a universe - I take it not theirs, necessarily, but that he was perhaps alluding to a parallel universe/dimension. Keep this in mind ...

So if Rimmer's mind can conjure up a fantasy to make himself feel better, the other guys' could too - or at least Lister's could, being a fellow human. If a friend or someone you loved died, wouldn't it make you happier to find out they hadn't died - even if it meant your brain had to do somersaults to make it so they just up and left you instead? Kryten's "confession" about lying about Kochanski's non-death was within the confines of the hallucination ... neither she nor the matter is discussed again AT ALL among the guys once Lister wakes up from the hallucination.

So here's my two points:

1. There's no indication that Kochanski did, indeed, not die in the Red Dwarf reality. Lister imagined she did not, to be happier and give himself hope - but there's no indication she'd be alive in his real life. So if RDX is indeed a continuation from BTE, either (a) we missed the conversation where Kryten admits that, indeed, he DID go against his programming and maintain a lie to his most beloved master for a long time, or (b) Lister has finally gone completely around the bend and the other guys are humoring his search for Kochanski at every turn.

2. OR ... RDX takes place in a parallel universe to BTE - but not the same universe - perhaps the one in which the Dwarfers exist in the same universe with their TV show viewers their hallucination created in BTE. One in which Kochanski didn't die; and/or Kryten lied about her dying and she's still alive out there, somewhere, for Lister to search for.

Do either of these make sense?

Comments

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Gosh, the thought of Lister hallucinating KK back to life had actually never occurred to me. I doubt Doug would kill her off because, as we know, he has a lot invested in their relationship.

But I think it does make sense to view BTE as existing in its own continuity, since nothing happens in it which affects Series X. If anything, Lister seems to have gone backwards emotionally at the start of X, although by the time of "The Beginning" he seems more stable.

[bayliss.livejournal.com]

My brain hurts now. Thank you.

I never looked at it that way. It very well be that Lister has gone yompy and the guys are afraid to admit it or like you said we missed that convo between Lister and Kryten outside of the hallucination. His Lordship Naylor did say there was no series 9 so maybe it was meant to happen then.

[felineranger.livejournal.com]

It's certainly an interesting hypothesis. Personally I'm not sure it works as, although they were still in the hallucination when Kryten finally came clean, Kryten existed in his own right within the hallucination and not as a part of it - so what he said is still valid no matter which plane of reality he was on at the time he said it. Or something.
However...I'd be willing to overlook this if it resulted in fic... :-)

[kronette.livejournal.com]

I've only watched BTE twice, and the first time was mostly me muttering "WTF is this?" The concept of a happy squid giving Lister Earth made sense, but not much else that happened went along with that scenario. Who brought in Katarina? Yes, Rimmer killing her gave him a great sense of relief, but who conjured her up in the first place? Maybe Cat? After all, it was her job to replace Rimmer.

What should have happened was seeing things from each of the lads POVs - even assuming they all shared the same hallucination, which I'm not actually sure of. Kryten and Cat got nothing for the hallucination, and Rimmer actually got a worse case scenario than his life. Assuming it was our Kryten in the hallucination, and he did tell Lister the truth, then Lister's actions make sense, but who generated the kids? Was it Kryten's guilt - after all these years? Like I said, it doesn't hold up under any sort of scrutiny. I take BTE as the stepping stone to give us X, and that's fine with me. BTE was a tv movie special, like a reunion movie, which spawned another round of series. That's good enough for me.