Some Trojan notices + Rimmer's class background

[saylee.livejournal.com]

I was rewatching Trojan the other night, and caught a few things I hadn't noticed before and that I don't think I've seen mentioned here. First off, when Rimmer's complaining about the lateral thinking questions, Lister asking him to lay a question on him seems like a genuine offer to help, at least until he hears about the moose and can't resist taking the smeg. Then, when Rimmer has the resentment attack, it's Lister (not, say, Kryten) who protests that they shouldn't draw on him. Okay. he caves to temptation, but still, he tried. Last, when Crawford fires on Lister, is it just me, or in the split second before Howard jumps in front of the blast, does Rimmer look terrified?

Oh a completely unrelated note, I'm having a difficult time trying to figure out Rimmer's class background. On the one hand, in the 1st series he complains about not having the right parents and the right nobby background, and about how someone like Todhunter would have been raised on gazpacho soup and champagne. On the other hand, in The Beginning, the Rimmers are apparently decended from princes (do I have that right? I can't check right now), and they're clearly well-off and have what seems to be a full-time gardener. I admit I'm not familiar with the nuances of the British class system, so I appreciate any clarification. I also wonder if the colonization of the solar system has any effect on this. Thoughts?

Comments

[lilka.livejournal.com]

I read Rimmer as just upper-middle-class enough to have grown up surrounded by actual upper class people, especially at school, and been picked on for not being one of them. (Think of George Osborne, the British chancellor, being nicknamed 'Oik' by his friends because he only went to the third most expensive private school in the country). I think his family probably had plenty of money, no connections, and aspirations to social climbing. I've known boys like that, and some of them certainly had that combination of class-related-chip-on-shoulder and lack of awareness of their own relative privilege.

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with your first paragraph. It really struck me in "Trojan" how relaxed Rimmer and Lister were around each other compared even to the relatively recent "BTE". Actually, I was lucky enough to watch this ep recorded and I'm sure I remember a part of the moose scene prior to that when Rimmer's complaining to Lister about being unable to fool the medi-bot that he was dyslexic because "I wasn't stupid enough" and gets the reply: "Don't sell yourself short. I'm sure you were really stupid". Craig's delivery of that line was affectionate.

I can understand it being cut as the whole medi-bot subplot was, but I'm mystified as to why it's not in the deleted scenes. If I hallucinated it, you'd think I would have imagined something slashier. ;)

I'm British, so I feel qualified to pontificate about Rimmer's background. I think the Rimmers are clearly what snobby people would call a "good" family, but I admit I'm sceptical about his "Dad" 's claim to be descended from Austrian and French royalty. I think he's decided that's the case from flimsy circumstantial evidence because he wants it to be the case.

Incidentally, he seems to completely disregard Rimmer's mother's family. He goes straight from European royalty to "lame-brained artisans and pram-faced trollops", referring to "Dungo". What a charmer, eh? :/

[saylee.livejournal.com]

It definitely seems to me like some kind of healing has been taking place between BTE and the beginning of RDX and then during RDX itself, culminating in The Beginning, but all with BTE as the turning point. I'm curious about how Lister in particular got to the low point he seems to be in in BTE (and was he even worse off before that to drive Kochanski away?).

What would be considered a "good family"? Your speculation about the royalty makes sense to me. Your point about his mother does make me wonder though. I always figured her family was at least as high on the social scale as his "Dad"'s family, if not a little higher, though that may be entirely my own headcanon. Given what we know of the Rimmer family "values", it's entirely plausible that sexism is among them, and therefore Mr. Rimmer considers his wife's background less relevant than his as the head of the family.

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

There are various theories about Lister's mental state in "BTE" - the most likely of which (canonically) seems to be that he wanted children with Kochanski and couldn't for whatever reason - infertility, her not wanting to etc. Bear in mind that the kids in the hallucination imply that they were in a relationship, so why he'd be so miserable is puzzling.

I always assumed that Rimmer's parents were of similar social standing, if for no other reason than that they both seem too snobbish to marry "below" themselves. ;)

Given the 1950s vibe of the flashback in "The Beginning", Mr Rimmer's sexism doesn't surprise me at all. From that social era, a "good family" would be considered a well-off one (but several generations removed from any physical labour which created that wealth) and active in the local church. In fact, is that why they apparently changed their religion - because the Church of Judas had more social cachet than Seventh Day Adventists? *Hmmm* :)

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

he seems to completely disregard Rimmer's mother's family. He goes straight from European royalty to "lame-brained artisans and pram-faced trollops"

Two things spring to mind, reading this:

1. Finding out his wife had cheated on him AND had the baby of a much lower-ranking paramour might possibly have influenced Mr. Rimmer's opinion of her; and

2. This kind of attitude might be why she cheated on him in the first place. ;-)

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Good points. I must say I always assumed that Mr Rimmer knew or at least suspected that his wife was having affairs, as apart from Dungo we also know of Uncle Frank and Porky Roebuck's Dad.

Maybe they even had some kind of unspoken understanding that they would both see other people and his annoyance stemmed from the fact that she wasn't discreet enough? Or didn't use protection? Or slept with a "working-class oik", as you said?

But all that is just my head canon - I have no actual proof. Your second point may well be correct. :)

[beetle-breath.livejournal.com]

Arghh still haven't seen Season X :(

at any rate, I think part of Rimmer's ranting also had to do with the fact that his parents were fucking awful human beings. Or perhaps because his father couldn't get into the Academy, the Rimmer sons wouldn't have the connections to get in.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Didn't I give you that link I found for eps?

[beetle-breath.livejournal.com]

yes, I've just haven't had the time. Thank you again :)

[saylee.livejournal.com]

While I agree that Rimmer's parents were beyond awful, early on at least he seems to focus more on not getting opportunities because of their place on the social scale rather than their treatment of him. He even makes excuses for their behaviour to him (I'm thinking of the argument with his double in Me2 and the scene with Kryten from the beginning of Polymorph). It's strange, really, because he's all too willing to blame people and circumstances for holding him back for reasons that are completely ludicrous, but when it comes to his family, where the damage they did and the ways it does hold him back seem obvious to me at least, he doesn't lay a lot of blame.

As far as the Academy, it seems like the family had enough connections to get the older three boys in, just not Arnold (IIRC he says it's because of the money, but it seems just as likely that it was because they didn't care).

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Actually, in the book I think it states he dropped out of the Academy because he wasn't doing well (don't remember if a reason was given, but I'm pretty sure he definitely attended) and decided to join a Corps crew as enlisted and try to work his way up as the alternate route.

[saylee.livejournal.com]

You're probably right about the book. I remember him dropping out of a school in order to try to work his way up the ranks. I just didn't remember it being the Academy. I was going on the argument in Me2:

RIMMER #2: (Sneering) Oh, yes, when the going gets tough, the tough go
and have a little cry in the corner. You got a sponge for a backbone!
No wonder father hated you!
RIMMER: That's a lie! A lie, lie, lie, lie, lie!
RIMMER #2: Then why didn't he send you to the academy?
RIMMER: He couldn't afford it!
RIMMER #2: Oh! He sent all our brothers!
RIMMER: You're a filthy, smegging, lying, smegging liar!

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

This is a problem all fans have when trying to make sense of continuity in this series - not only does the show contradict itself, the books contradict the series. It depends whether you prefer the show's version or the book version regarding a lot of plot points. ;)

[hazeltea.livejournal.com]

I absolutely agree- the Rimmers were apparently one of the first mining families to settle on Io, so they were able to buy the best land before most people and claim a 'heritage'- like Americans who go on about 'coming over on the Mayflower'. So, they are squarely middle class with aspirations to be perceived as elite. A military career is traditionally a way to achieve this, and seems to be the route his father and brothers emphasized. Mining might be good business, but it's still, broadly speaking, powered by working class people.

[fantasysci5.livejournal.com]

I'm intrigued, where did you hear that the Rimmers were one of the first mining families to settle?

[hazeltea.livejournal.com]

I believe it was in one of the novels. I can't recall which one, sorry.

[saylee.livejournal.com]

I hadn't heard that about being one of the first families to settle on Io, but then I haven't quite worked up the emotional fortitude to try to tackle either Backwards or Last Human.

Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I'm curious though about how that plays out on Io. What's the distribution of working class miners, etc. to families like the Rimmers? For instance, if Io is mainly working class, then would the Rimmers, who are only middle class in the general social hierarchy, be closer to being the elite on Io (if there aren't many upper class people)? Rimmer's classmates at Io house seem to come from similar backgrounds, and presumably all come from Io as well. Someplace like the Academy, where his brothers go might be off Io and have more actually upper class students.

[hazeltea.livejournal.com]

I assume that the only real difference of opinion. The Rimmers aren't 'better' than other families, they just perceive themselves to be. I think that it's less a matter of class than one of rank. He feels like he is not elite because his father didn't pay for him to go to public school to be groomed for the Space Corps, while his brothers all went. Again, I don't remember which novel it was, but he complained about his brothers having an edge over him because his father paid for them to have what is basically Google installed in their brains, so that they didn't have to be naturally intelligent to seem like they knew a lot. Presumably this is common in people going to good schools in this time period.

[hazeltea.livejournal.com]

Also, since Io is basically a shithole full of volcanoes where one can only live under a bubble, having the 'best' bit of it is laughable. Perception, again.

[missflibble.livejournal.com]

As a fellow Brit, I'd agree with janamelie that the Rimmer family are upper middle class with 'Dungo' clearly being from a working class background. The whole 'artisans and princes' line smacks of a typical Rimmer-esque tweaking of the facts to be honest...but it does rather remind me of Mrs Bouquet/Bucket from 'Keeping Up Appearances' (British sitcom)!!

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Yes! Totally. "It's Bou-kay!" :)

[slash-hat.livejournal.com]

Practically everybody is descended from some sort of royalty (and also from merchants and pirates and miners and peasants and...) because when you get back a few hundred years you've got thousands of ancestors coming from a much smaller population. If it was within the last few generations, the family probably would have some money and/or tiles, and therefore would be "nobby"; the fact that they don't, but Rimmer senior is boasting about blood, is very much an insecure petty-bourgeois thing.

[jameta4all.livejournal.com]

I think Rimmer would complain about his life even if he'd been born as Prince William.

I always considered his family to be fallen middle class - like where they come from good stock and have connections but everyone pretends not to know them because they're too dysfunctional, even for blue-bloods, and they eventually lose a lot of money. Rather like the person who ends up being the culprit in every episode of Midsomer Murderers.

A sudden financial crisis would also explain only the first three sons going to the academy, and them having a nice big house on Io. I watch a lot of property shows and you quite often get the bankrupt toffs who inherit a huge mansion but can't actually afford to keep it warm or even upright. They end up having to let it out or have tours to keep their cash going.