Thoughts on Jim & Bexley

[felineranger.livejournal.com]

I've been thinking about this a bit recently and wondered something. What do other people imagine happening to the twins in the future in show/book canon? We know Bexley dies in one reality from Future Echoes but other than that it's very open-ended, and actually kinda depressing. In any reality where the twins are born on Red Dwarf after the accident, surely a time will come when Lister and Cat have died, Rimmer and Kryten have burned out, and they'll be left alone. Even more so than Lister. What would they do? Go into stasis in the hopes of getting back to Earth? Find a planet with a GELF population and make the best of it?
Even at the end of Last Human, Kochanski tells Lister that they're about to make the first of many children. But what's going to happen to those children? Are they going to encourage them to breed incestuously to restart the human race? If they have a daughter are they going to encourage her to have sex with McGruder, the only other human man left, in order to widen the gene pool a bit?

It seems like whatever happens, Lister having kids ultimately puts those kids in a pretty shite position. Any thoughts?

Comments

[rosecathy1.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I've always felt that Grant Naylor didn't really think this through. In IWCD it's even Bexley's son, not Bexley, who dies, and how did he come to exist? Or maybe they had an "anything could happen" philosphy — the twins could find a time hole, go through a wormhole to an alternate dimension where there are more humans, come across a settlement in deep space (like in that one fic of yours), meet more cats??

I guess if all else fails, they could try to address the breeding issue by using artificial insemination rather than sex, which would be a smidgen less...eww.

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

I think they said the reason for making it Bexley's son rather than Bexley himself who dies was because they felt that in hindsight, Lister's reaction in "Future Echoes" to learning his son will die young and horribly was really OOC. I agree. ;)

[rosecathy1.livejournal.com]

Oh, I know, but did they give any thought to how/with whom Bexley could have children? I doubt it. That timeline probably isn't valid anymore, anyway..

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

It probably is a redundant timeline, much as we think the "Stasis Leak" one where Lister marries Kochanski is. The difference is that that timeline was unofficially explained away because it seems highly likely that the future crew in "Out Of Time" were the "Stasis Leak" wedding party a couple of decades down the line. Witness the uncharacteristic rudeness of bearded Lister to his younger self, for instance.

There's no such explanation for fans to have fun with for Jim and Bexley, which is kind of weird when you consider that they're Lister's children and the continuation of the human race is a major theme of the show.

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Oh, if only Kelly was around... ;)

Regarding Jim and Bexley, of course they're currently with Deb and Arlene as far as we know. (I realise this is highly unlikely, but personally I'd love to meet the "Parallel Universe" crew again. Craig's son Jack could possibly play both twins with the help of a split screen.)

Actually it's the same problem whether or not we assume that they come back to the universe of their birth at some stage. I suppose there are ways to get around it. Stasis, deep sleep, AU versions of the crew, time travel, wormholes etc.

As for the "LH" situation, I always wondered about that too. Does the fact that McGruder's had his aging gene removed mean he's basically immortal? That could be one way of assuring some human contact for these theoretical kids, grandkids etc of Lister and Kochanski who isn't a relative of some kind. Which is exactly why you wouldn't want that spoiled by using him as a sperm donor, even if that's all he does and no actual sex is involved. Ewww. :/

I suppose if Doug ever wrote a sequel he'd probably get himself out of this genetic cul-de-sac by having them meet more humans somehow. Please. It's all getting too incestuous. :o

For those who don't know, he did actually say at the last DJ that both he and Rob want to write more RD novels. The implication was separately though.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Canon is not my forte on this matter, because I've wondered the same thing many times; both Nat and I have. We came up with a story in which the crew find a planetoid of peaceful simulants who've fashioned a pretty approximate human community society, and elect to raise the boys there, when they're about six years old (oh yeah, they were able to stay in this dimension and grow normally, too - it's an AU).

As canon goes, it seems the only time anyone sets out to make a kid is Kochanski 2.0, with Lister (and in Doug's book, if you call that an alternate canon). While I appreciate this works out for Lister since he fathers himself, I have to admit the whole idea of being the last human, or the last two humans, and wanting to purposely make a baby just for the experience, or to keep you company ... is pretty fucking selfish. If there's a very good chance you will never find anyone else that kid could grow up and spend his/her life with - friend or lover - think of the life you're dooming them to. Not just after you die, but before - nobody should have to spend their entire life only with their parents and a couple of their parents' friends.

[lordvalerymimes.livejournal.com]

I think Jim and Bexley were probably ill-conceived to begin with, which is why their whole timeline and pretty much any mention of their existence (with the exception of Demons and Angels) was excised with little explanation once series III started. I honestly think that Rob and Doug probably just didn't really think it through when they had the idea of Lister getting pregnant and then having two babies. If they had Lister keep the twins, that would have meant they'd have to try to film the show with either babies or children, and that would have made production so much more difficult. Apart from the technical difficulties of adding babies to a television show, I don't think they thought much about how Jim and Bexley's lives would unfold in such a dismal future. Maybe I'm not giving Rob & Doug enough credit, but my guess is that they didn't think much further than, "Wouldn't it be funny, if this guy thinks he's going to have sons in the future, but he doesn't realize that he's going to be the one actually GIVING BIRTH to them?"

Did we ever find out if Deb and Arlene's dimension was in the exact same state as Lister and Rimmer's? I've always assumed that yes, they were also 3 million years away from earth in a human-less universe, but maybe they weren't? I haven't watched Parallel Universe in a while, so my memory is a bit foggy. Maybe poor Jim and Bexley had some chance at a more normal life in Deb and Arlene's universe?

It makes me sad to think of Cat and Lister dying and Rimmer and Kryten being left to their own devices while they wait to burn out. I know there's a theory out there that the Inquisitor is actually Kryten, and I'll admit that I do find that concept intriguing.