Nine Worlds Geek Fest

[jenoofer.livejournal.com]

Hi! Some of you may remember (or even have attended!) the Nine Worlds con a couple of years ago when Chris Barrie was one of the guests. I'm co-organising the LGBTQ+ track at this year's Nine Worlds, and am planning a session on LGBTQ+ representation in fandom. I'd like to include Red Dwarf as one of the fandoms to discuss because I know that the way queerness is represented in the show is very different to its representation in the fandom.

So I'm here to ask for a bit of help and some suggestions. How do you guys feel Red Dwarf fandom represents queer characters (by which I mean characters who are not heterosexual, not cis-gender or not sexual) compared to the show itself? Do you see fandom/fic as a way to deal with or 'fix' negative representations in the show? How do you deal with the show's sometimes negative representations of queerness?

At the moment I'm thinking the session is going to be a panel discussion with fic writers from different fandoms, but I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any other ideas - I have a 75 minute session to fill on the topic of LGBTQ+ representation in fanfiction/online fandom.

Any comments/suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Comments

[rosecathy1.livejournal.com]

The biggest difference between the show's and fandom's representations, I think, is that there is representation in the fandom, Lister/Rimmer being the most popular pairing by far though other queer pairings exist. If you look for it strictly in canon, there isn't much aside from throwaway references. Holly could be considered bigender and/or bisexual, but I honestly don't think the writers intended it that way; once the switch from male to female happened, it was (what would be perceived as) a complete switch between two cishet versions.

I suppose the nearest we get to 100% clear representation, if you can call it that, is the writers' slight fixation on Herman Goering being a transvestite. (Also the Noel Coward wax droid, who appeared for like five seconds?)

Fandom/fic can be a way to deal with the issue(s). Fix-it fics certainly exist: this one (http://archiveofourown.org/works/562230) concerning the transphobic content in Dear Dave, for example. There are also these (http://archiveofourown.org/works/1989528) two (http://archiveofourown.org/works/2013357) trans!Lister AU fics. However, I don't know that "fixing" is the primary concern of every slash author in the fandom -- for some it is, whereas for others it's more about having fun with subtext.

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Holly is an interesting character, because although she / he can be viewed as asexual, the episode "Parallel Universe" would seem to contradict that when male Holly has a romance with a female version of him, Hilly, complete with actual lipstick marks seen on him. Later, female Holly is clearly attracted to a male character, Ace, to the extent that she actually faints when he addresses her.

As you say, I've read arguments that Holly is bigender, transexual etc and I can completely see how the character can be read that way. But like yourself I don't believe it was intentional on the writers' part. Their attitude is generally "Is it funny? In it goes then!".

As for fix-its, they are good to read and I appreciate them. But my personal motivation when writing is more to build on the hints which canon gives us and sometimes to simply strike out in a completely new direction for the sheer fun of it.

[lordvalerymimes.livejournal.com]

There are a few standard tropes in the show. There's a character who has sexual magnetism that is so irresistible that a happily married heterosexual character is willing to "go gay" for him. At another point a character is told that a version of him in a parallel universe is gay and he gets uncharacteristically uncomfortable about the idea. There is a character whose worst qualities are brought to life in a "low" version of himself, and that version, while not explicitly identified as being gay, wears women's lingerie and threatens another male with sexual violence.

So yes, there is some queer substance in the show, but none of it is anything that could be called representation. The fandom however, at least on this side of it, has loads. Because of the sci-fi nature of the show, the fact that parallel universes and bodyswapping are canon, just about anything you can imagine, can theoretically fit within the show's universe without even violating the "rules" of the show. It allows for a wonderfully vast amount of creativity from the various authors in the fandom. Rose has mentioned a couple of particularly good ones above.

Although there is nothing overtly gay within the show other than the tropes I already mentioned, the gay subtext is so thick, I find it mind-boggling that more people don't notice it. The writers of the show say that they never intended any homosexuality to be implied within the scripts, and I can believe them, but intentional or not, there is definitely a subtext there in a lot of moments.

I think a part of the lack of queer representation stems from the time-period. I would be curious if Red Dwarf would have been more open-minded about such things, had it come out today, rather than in 1988.

As for dealing with the show's negativity towards queerness, there aren't too many moments that hit my buttons, but when they do, I just shake my head, blame it on sloppy writing, and go back to my own writing. ;-)

There is such a lack of queer relationships on television that aren't a token queer relationship, or a flamboyant stereotype, or presented in any kind of normal or average way like heterosexual relationships are. There is something very nice about fanfiction where queer relationships, can just be relationships like any other, and explored for their own uniqueness, rather than for the fact that they're queer.

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

The only thing I would add to this excellent post (for Jenoofer's benefit) is that this is a show where two men who supposedly hate each other and have an entire spaceship the size of a city at their disposal nevertheless continue to share a bunkroom for over two decades (leaving aside Rimmer's temporary absence).

Yes, it can be interpreted as simply needing companionship and clearly that's part of it, but equally clearly they develop a strong bond which can be read in various ways. And it pleases me to interpret it as romantic. :p

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

Personally, although I'm a lesbian, there aren't too many moments in the show where something really strikes me as homophobic. If anything, there are more sexist moments, sadly. Especially in Series VIII where all the characters lose several IQ points and are presented as unable to control their libidos because they're in prison. :/

Getting back to queer representation, the Low version of Rimmer has already been mentioned, but I'd like to add that the reason I don't view that as a homophobic stereotype is because (a) he isn't actually identified as being gay; it can simply be read as sexual sadism, (b) the character is a fairly reasonable extrapolation of regular Rimmer's obsession with authority and (c) Low Rimmer is balanced out by High Rimmer who represents Rimmer's best qualities and is shown to have a homoerotic (or possibly homoromantic) bond with High Lister. The Highs are arguably asexual or aromantic.

There is also the episode "Blue" where one of the leads, Lister, is missing the other lead, Rimmer (Chris Barrie left the show for half a season but was soon back). Lister has a swooningly romantic dream about kissing Rimmer and wakes up in a panic. Although his reaction is disgust, it's not presented as disgust at dreaming about kissing a man, rather disgust at dreaming about kissing this particular man with whom his relationship is usually antagonistic.

The episode avoids falling into the heteronormative trap of then having Lister fall into the arms of the nearest available woman. Although he talks to Kochanski and she helps him to analyse the dream, romance is specifically off the table as soon as he blows his nose in a disgusting fashion. The show is a comedy and will always go for laughs before romance.

[lordvalerymimes.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I never thought that their intent with the Low version of Rimmer was for him to be gay, but I can imagine a lot of viewers coming away with that impression, regardless of what was intended. I don't know if this is perhaps less exaggerated in the UK, but here in the US, you stick a man in stockings and a garter belt, and you'll immediately have people slinging the word, "gay" around. Because why would a man ever want to wear women's clothing or lingerie unless he was gay? *insert rolling eyes here*

I like your thoughts about Blue. I always liked that Lister's disgust was clearly linked to the fact that he was kissing Rimmer, and not at all about the fact that he was kissing a man.