Hard-Light Drives & Slash
Jul. 17th, 2015 12:39 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
lordvalerymimes.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
reddwarfslashI had a bit of a shower thought this morning. It seems to be universally accepted that Doug & Rob decided to write Legion, and Rimmer getting his hard-light drive, mainly because writing around his physical limitations as a hologram was too irritating, or had gotten tiresome for them. I wonder though, what if they hadn't just shrugged their shoulders and given him a corporeal form? What if Rimmer, all the way up through series X, was still soft-light and couldn't touch anything? If Rimmer had never been written as hard-light, would slash have ever happened?
This is probably a tough "what if?" question to answer, because I don't know if any Red Dwarf slash existed prior to the airing of Blue, and Rimmer was already hard-light by that point. Part of what makes the dynamic between Lister and Rimmer interesting (for me), is the fact that for so many years, they wouldn't have been able to touch one another, and then suddenly? Flood-gates open. Not to say that this is the only part of their dynamic that matters, but for me, it just gives them a strong push in a slashy direction. You already have them as the only two humans left in the universe, even though Rimmer is technically dead. You already have two people who have had a tumultuous relationship, but who ultimately clearly care about one another. Anyone who reads Lister and Rimmer's relationship as two people who just hate one another, clearly is not paying close attention to how they behave with one another, especially in their more vulnerable moments (Rimmer in Thanks for the Memory, and Lister in Blue immediately springs to mind). The show is also set in the future where who knows what the attitudes might be towards non-hetero relationships, so it's a bit presumptuous to just assume that the two of them are 100% heterosexual without it ever being explicitly stated on the show. Contrary to popular belief, bisexuality is in fact, a real thing. ;-)
If Doug & Rob had never taken it upon themselves to make Rimmer corporeal, I wonder if people writing fanfic would have done so on their own? Rimmer was clamoring to get a physical body, essentially as soon as he became a hologram. People could have easily used that as a springboard to come up with their own way to make Rimmer solid. Maybe he eventually would have met the Quagaars, and they WOULD have had the means to give him a new body (albeit that of a roast chicken). Bodyswap also lays some interesting seeds for the idea of minds being transplanted from one body to another. Perhaps they could have discovered another derelict space station that was experimenting in creating human bodies from scratch. I mean we already have the capability to grow certain body parts and organs, it doesn't seem too unlikely that in Rimmer and Lister's immediate future, they might have the means to grow a full body and implant Rimmer's memory into it.
I suppose I'm just curious how much people think the hard-light drive had to do with setting off the RD slash community, or if it's something that would have happened anyway regardless. There's always pre-accident fics, and soft-light angst, but I feel like the majority of RD slash is set post-Legion for good reason. It's hard for me to think of RD and removing the idea of Rimmer being hard-light, because I watched the show so quickly, and discovered the slash before I even got to Blue. It's hard for me to think if I would have been tempted to ship Rimmer with Lister if I hadn't known that at some point, Rimmer was going to be touchable.
Any thoughts? Also, I just realized this technically goes along with RD series weeks, since the hard-light drive happened in series VI. Yay me for being topical. ;-)
This is probably a tough "what if?" question to answer, because I don't know if any Red Dwarf slash existed prior to the airing of Blue, and Rimmer was already hard-light by that point. Part of what makes the dynamic between Lister and Rimmer interesting (for me), is the fact that for so many years, they wouldn't have been able to touch one another, and then suddenly? Flood-gates open. Not to say that this is the only part of their dynamic that matters, but for me, it just gives them a strong push in a slashy direction. You already have them as the only two humans left in the universe, even though Rimmer is technically dead. You already have two people who have had a tumultuous relationship, but who ultimately clearly care about one another. Anyone who reads Lister and Rimmer's relationship as two people who just hate one another, clearly is not paying close attention to how they behave with one another, especially in their more vulnerable moments (Rimmer in Thanks for the Memory, and Lister in Blue immediately springs to mind). The show is also set in the future where who knows what the attitudes might be towards non-hetero relationships, so it's a bit presumptuous to just assume that the two of them are 100% heterosexual without it ever being explicitly stated on the show. Contrary to popular belief, bisexuality is in fact, a real thing. ;-)
If Doug & Rob had never taken it upon themselves to make Rimmer corporeal, I wonder if people writing fanfic would have done so on their own? Rimmer was clamoring to get a physical body, essentially as soon as he became a hologram. People could have easily used that as a springboard to come up with their own way to make Rimmer solid. Maybe he eventually would have met the Quagaars, and they WOULD have had the means to give him a new body (albeit that of a roast chicken). Bodyswap also lays some interesting seeds for the idea of minds being transplanted from one body to another. Perhaps they could have discovered another derelict space station that was experimenting in creating human bodies from scratch. I mean we already have the capability to grow certain body parts and organs, it doesn't seem too unlikely that in Rimmer and Lister's immediate future, they might have the means to grow a full body and implant Rimmer's memory into it.
I suppose I'm just curious how much people think the hard-light drive had to do with setting off the RD slash community, or if it's something that would have happened anyway regardless. There's always pre-accident fics, and soft-light angst, but I feel like the majority of RD slash is set post-Legion for good reason. It's hard for me to think of RD and removing the idea of Rimmer being hard-light, because I watched the show so quickly, and discovered the slash before I even got to Blue. It's hard for me to think if I would have been tempted to ship Rimmer with Lister if I hadn't known that at some point, Rimmer was going to be touchable.
Any thoughts? Also, I just realized this technically goes along with RD series weeks, since the hard-light drive happened in series VI. Yay me for being topical. ;-)
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Date: 2015-07-17 05:22 pm (UTC)Sorry, but I'm just fucking tired of all the "but why THEM?" from other segments of this fandom lately who seem to see themselves up as the gatekeepers of what's acceptable and what's not, and what's "respectful" of canon and what's not. I've seen this happen in a bunch of other fandoms, I've been in one of them before now, and I don't appreciate being treated like I'm either sex-starved pathetic, or juvenile, for what I like. (For the record of anyone nosing in over here, I'm pretty much asexual.) Personally, I couldn't give a rat's ass about most of the discussion on models and CGI effects in this show, but I don't question those fans simply enjoying that sort of thing, because (1) they add something to the fandom and I like reading what they come up with once in a while, and (2) I'm a goddamn respectful adult who knows how to give other people space to do what they enjoy when it's not hurting anyone.
Do I think some people may feel left out by our discussions and fic and art? Sure they do. But I think we've proven elsewhere, such as Tumblr, that when engaged we're more than happy to talk about other aspects of the show, including het and gen relationships, plot points, philosophy, sci-fi elements, science (including the 3D printing reference in this post), FX, tragedy vs. comedy, and, for me, the most important thing of all: The Funny. Aren't we all pretty much brought together by the fact this is just a funny program? (That, and the fact I've known for 20 years gazpacho is NEVER to be served hot.)
(If you want me to erase this comment, or you want to because it's not keeping with the tone of your post, I won't be offended at all - I'm not trying to start anything, I just wish I could finish it. The fandom is 27 years old and the same shit keeps coming up, usually instigated by those who, when called on their stirring, are all "whaaaaaa? ... I didn't mean anything BAD by it." Right.)
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Date: 2015-07-17 06:25 pm (UTC)My main issue with it all though, is the fact that I have a very hard time understanding why people don't see where the slash comes from. I literally never shipped anyone, never wrote any slash or fanfic at all for that matter, until I watched Red Dwarf. The slash practically writes itself. Low Rimmer? Blue? Slash is already in the show, even if it's not always as overt as those two examples. For people to deny it so completely and be so put off by it, it just feels sort of like willful ignorance. They love the show, they love the characters, and for some reason it REALLY bothers them to think of Lister and Rimmer in THAT way. For everyone's protestations that it's about the characters, and not about having a problem with homosexuality, I have a hard time buying it.
Also, I wonder how many of the people who judge have actually read any of the slash? I mean not to toot our own horn, but some of us are damned good. Plenty of fics have made me laugh out loud. It's not easy to combine explicit sex with humor, and I think it's pretty impressive how well we manage to pull it off.
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Date: 2015-07-17 07:12 pm (UTC)Also, I wonder how many of the people who judge have actually read any of the slash?
Eh...I get what you're saying, but it shouldn't matter how good or bad it is. Personally, I'd rather not suggest any of my stories (however indirectly) to people who aren't into the subject matter.
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Date: 2015-07-17 07:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-07-17 07:39 pm (UTC)You're one of those "dirty deadie" protesters, aren't you? Tell the truth now. ;-)
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Date: 2015-07-17 07:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-07-18 08:49 pm (UTC)Do I think some people may feel left out by our discussions and fic and art? Sure they do. But I think we've proven elsewhere, such as Tumblr, that when engaged we're more than happy to talk about other aspects of the show, including het and gen relationships, plot points, philosophy, sci-fi elements, science (including the 3D printing reference in this post), FX, tragedy vs. comedy, and, for me, the most important thing of all: The Funny. Aren't we all pretty much brought together by the fact this is just a funny program?
This. I'd like to add that the myth that it's only slash fans who may (sometimes and understandably, given all the crap we have to put up with on multiple websites) get defensive about liking what we do really pisses me off. To take your example, I've seen the model fans get defensive about snarky comments and respond along the lines of: "I'm not a virgin, I have a girlfriend, so there!". It's human nature to get pissed off once in a while when you read snarky little digs at people like yourself for simply enjoying something.
And also the perception that we only talk about slash, which is patently absurd if you actually bother to read a few threads both here and on Tumblr. We love the show for many things, not only the L/R relationship. It's just a fun show and it really is sad when we lose sight of that because of wank.
For the benefit of outsiders, I repeat that I'm talking about multiple websites, incidents and posters. Hence why we get pissed off sometimes.
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Date: 2015-07-17 06:07 pm (UTC)XD While I'm not that fond of Waiting for God, it slays me when Rimmer says in all seriousness, "They must have looked something like...a roast chicken."
Anyway: I can't find it now, but there was a discussion on the history of RD slash and I think the consensus was that there wasn't much of it before Blue. That said, I've read more than one personal account of getting into L/R pretty much from the start (i.e., before knowing about Blue), so I think the shipping and fics would have happened regardless of the hard-light drive, though maybe not as prolifically because the situation would have seemed so hopeless. People would indeed have come up with their own ideas for giving Rimmer a body, or used AR more frequently in fics.
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Date: 2015-07-17 06:48 pm (UTC)I often forget about the AR suite and how it can be utilized in fics. I do have one idea on the backburner that features the AR suite. I'll have to actually get to writing that at some point. My current WIP has been stalled for ages. I might need to start on something else and go back to it to get over the writer's block.
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Date: 2015-07-17 07:17 pm (UTC)