there's always room for criticism

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

By and large, though, I have to say Series XI was in some ways lighter and perhaps more fun than Series X. Also, there was just enough character development that didn't change the core characters but did make them of more interest (at least to me).

For no real reason except that it's all done airing and I've seen all six episodes, I though I'd post some brief thoughts about this season.

I'm not sure "Twentica" was the strongest start to a season. I don't know which RD episode holds that distinction of the 11 to choose from, but I feel like "Trojan" fit the bill nicely, for example. In fact, while I liked it and "Samsara" overall, something felt off about the first two episodes, and partly into "Give and Take." And then I realized what part of it (maybe all of it; I haven't decided yet) was - it was how Chris was playing Rimmer, or perhaps how he was written and forcing the actor to play him. It seemed sort of hurky-jerky, like Chris had been out of practice for so long that he wasn't sure how to inhabit the character or that the part wasn't written the way it should be. And I remember thinking, Surely that's not the problem - I've watched this for years, and I know Doug can write well and Chris can act well.

I think it was the point where Rimmer hauls Kryten in front of him as a shield and prop for his gun in "Give and Take" that it occurred to me maybe there wasn't ANY mistake in how the part was written or acted this season ... but that Rimmer was being given a bigger boost than normal in his development, and it wasn't intended to be presented as smooth or easy, since what Rimmer is trying to do differently doesn't come naturally to such a weaselly character. Back in Series 6 in "Rimmerworld" for example, he has a decided advantage over the bad guy - being unseen behind her, holding a blaster, and motivation to protect the other three who were in immediate danger WITH MINIMAL RISK TO HIMSELF. And yet, he flees in cowardice. This isn't to say his rescue of Lister and Cat is perfect - he still shields himself behind Kryten, but it's ostensibly done to prop up the large gun to shoot at who he thinks is the enemy. Then they grab the gurneys and get the hell out of Dodge - HE SADDLES HIMSELF WITH PUSHING A GURNEY AND SLOWING HIMSELF DOWN RATHER THAN JUST FLEEING WHILE THE STATION THEY'RE ON IS BEING PUMMELED TO DUST BY SPACE DEBRIS.

I've seen some fans upset that in the very next episode, he reverts to his old ways as "Officer Rimmer" and goes on a power trip that excludes his crewmates as friends. While I agree it might have been over the top, I also kind of like the fact Doug reminds me us that this character hasn't completely changed; he's still an asshole, just under more narrow circumstances than in the past, and it's only most of the time - not ALL the time - he's struggling to be a better person. Rimmer is the type of guy that you just cannot give him sanctioned power, or he'll abuse the fuck out of it; however, he seems to do all right if he's in a position where he can take power for himself - and not a whole lot, just enough to get the job done. I like that Doug didn't alter him wholly after learning his paternity; the experience just freed Rimmer up to pursue goals other than trying to be his (no longer) father's pride and joy.

Lister, too, has evolved it seems. Instead of getting himself worked up over Rimmer's power madness as he did a few times when he was younger, he expresses some disgust but basically lets the guy run himself into the ground. He strategically waits until the right moment to force Rimmer to abdicate his promotion and rank, and he does it without rubbing it in his face (well, at least not much). He's also less dependent on substance abuse in this season, it seems; in fact, I think we're meant to understand this by the subplot in "Give and Take" when we first think he drank himself into a two-day stupor, and then it's clearly explained later that no, he was recovering from surgery he couldn't remember.

(Which still doesn't explain why Rimmer was OK with him taking up his bunk for two days, since THAT Rimmer didn't yet know about the kidney-napping - at least it doesn't explain it in canon. WE know why he was OK with Lister in his bed, of course. ;-) )

Also, it seems Lister has perhaps been sticking with his studies, as evidenced here and there by bits of historical information he spouts off, which seems in marked contrast with his pre-Series X self. I'm just waiting for him to start wearing glasses; so is Rimmer, I'm sure. :-P

Even the Cat and Kryten get to evolve this season. Early-seasons Cat wouldn't have given two hoots about saving his fellows from multiple polymorphs, and he certainly wouldn't have passed up a chance to shoot Rimmer out of existence. Kryten's going through his mid-life crisis and learns he's not as smart as he thought he was - but considering the company he keeps, he's a freaking genius anyway, so it's all good.

This season the strength of these four characters as a found family seems stronger than ever. They're not just disparate creatures thrown together in a big red red big tin can anymore - they rely on one another and protect each other and depend on one another for company, sanity, criticism, and support, and they accept each other's mistakes and personality shortcomings.

Finally, this season has been great for the sci part of sci-fi - we don't always get a lot of hard science in some seasons of RD, but XI has been full of it. It's not all good science of course, but there's a lot of speculative in the fiction this time. It's also been a good season for guest characters, particularly the women introduced, from Harmony and Beryl to Lady Cat (I was sorry she wasn't real and couldn't stick around as a regular crew member or at least recurring), to the crew of the Samsara.

Comments

[rosecathy1.livejournal.com]

I don't have too much to say other than that I agree with your assessments of the characters and their evolution. As I've said many times, I love the four main characters functioning as a family. Even Officer Rimmer had tinges of that.

Rimmer is the type of guy that you just cannot give him sanctioned power, or he'll abuse the fuck out of it
Well, this may have implications for some types of sexual scenarios *cough*

IIRC Twentica was the last episode of this series to be filmed (maybe that's why it has an actual ending scene), and while I can see why, I do think it was a strong start in that after what I think of as the meandering plot era, it brought us back to a tightly scripted, drop-you-right-in-the-adventure style.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Twentica still hits me as maybe the weakest of this series in the writing/plot point. The thing is, that's not to say it's bad - in a standout series, being the weakest isn't a bad thing, since it's still better than a few other older episodes I can name. I will say the guest characters really helped boost it, particularly the scientists. But in rewatches, it's not the one I gravitate to first, second, or third is all.

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

I also agree with this assessment. This series has been loads of fun and I kind of like that Doug's left various plot points etc open to interpretation. He obviously knows that fans enjoy speculation, meta and fic writing. We don't need every detail spoonfed to us.

It's interesting how many plot devices have been introduced which would work brilliantly in fics. The personality tuck machine, the polymorphs impersonating the Boyz, the device in "Twentica", the Karma Drive, the bio-printer...

That's the advantage of being a writer, I suppose. When I see fans - on various sites, I should clarify - complaining about why didn't Doug do X instead of Y, I just think there's always fic. It's a nice feeling. :)

Also the female characters were a big improvement on X and Doug managed to avoid offending people as far as I'm aware. I imagine he received feedback on the response to X and seems to have tried his best to take criticism on board and offer something for everyone this series whilst still writing freely. I don't just mean potentially offensive stuff; also things like starting episodes in a far more focussed fashion after complaints that some eps in X took too long to get going.

Personally I can't wait for the DVD in order to glean extra bits and bobs from the deleted scenes. This series is fertile fic material.

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

We don't need every detail spoonfed to us. This sets us apart from other fans, and I wonder if that's why we sometimes seem to irritate them - I get the feeling off them "why can't you just be satisfied with what you're given?" Well, because I just can't is all, LOL. The best creators realize this sooner or later and their property survives longer.

Oh, all the plot devices. I hope more fics will start coming forward, and that it's just the fact people haven't seen the series yet or don't have the DVD to rewatch and get ideas, as why we don't have so many yet from Series XI. Because there ARE a lot of new sci-fi devices to play with in many ways.

I don't know what worked on Doug's brain between the late 90s and now, but this series is a VAST improvement over 8. I feel like it's almost the anti-8. At this point if he did bring Kochanski back I have more confidence he'd be able to handle her as an independent character and not a growth stemming from Lister - more confidence than I did about Series X. So at this point I wouldn't mind seeing her again (in fact, I would like to see her and Rimmer interact in daily, non-prison types of storylines in fact).

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

Twentica was my least favourite episode of series X1 and that's the one I saw last for various reasons..

I've noticed a couple of fans saying that Rimmer seemed a bit 'off' in the new series and one of them gave a possible reason - that whilst Doug Naylor wants him to move forward in himself to a degree ( show the occasional bit of bravery or seem more at ease with himself and his place within the crew ) he's too nervous about allowing him to move forward TOO MUCH for fear of the character not being funny any more. There's also the issue that since Cat became a bigger character and Kryten has taken over the role that Holly had but with a much bigger presence, Rimmer's original purpose in the show - to keep Lister sane because he's the only human on Red Dawrf and possibly the only human in space - has been lost and now he exists mostly to be called a smeghead by the others. In fact thinking about it, we didn't get that much Lister / Rimmer interaction during X1, except for a few nice scenes in their sleeping quarters. Whenever the boys were split into pairs off-ship, more often than not it was Lister / Cat and Rimmer / Kryten

One fan said that for him / her, since Rimmer has shown a bit of growth over recent series and now that his character is older - as they all are - that he / she is torn about whether they want Rimmer to revert to his old character in episodes like Officer Rimmer or whether they'd actually prefer his character to have a bit more dignity now and really move forward and I think Doug Naylor will struggle with the same question. I did think Twentia had some of the weakest Rimmer materiel in a long time and it wasn't so much because of Chris's acting but because the materiel he had to work with wasn't good, he didn't have much of a place in the episode like Lister ( the show's main focal point ) and Kryten.

Also, Red Dwarf was originally written by TWO creators - Doug and Rob Grant - and it would make sense that once one of them left, the show wouldn't be quite the same as it once was. I'm kind of hoping that in series XII

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

I'll answer more later, but ACK. I think your post got cut off!

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

Oooops, my last sentence got cut off.

I only meant to add that in the next series - despite enjoying Officer Rimmer, one of the funnier XI episodes for me - I hope his character has something more original to work with and that Doug doesn't rely too much on the other characters finding reasons to see him as a smeghead, even if it's done from a place of 'affection' in Lister's case. ( Let's face it, Lister and Rimmer are like an old married couple in some ways )

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

That's a good point about Rimmer. The thing is, though, he does serve a purpose insofar as Lister is concerned, and I'd hope Doug would bear that in mine - he's the only other human to relate to Lister, for one thing. And, he's the only one suited to be Lister's equal. For all his breaking of programming, Kryten just never will be - he's too keen to serve Lister and sympathize with him - and Cat is too self-centered and short attention-span to care enough about being sensitive to Lister's moods. For all his flaws, Rimmer IS capable of having discussions of meaning with Lister, whether agreeable or no, and he provides a perspective Lister's not going to get from the other two.

I found "Officer Rimmer" humorous in parts, but it's not a good look on Rimmer anymore - not all the time. We all occasionally revert to bad behavior and that's how I saw him there. We all make fools of ourselves from time to time, though, and having those just once in a while, I can deal with.

[tigercheetah.livejournal.com]

Yeah, as long as the behaviour we saw in 'Officer Rimmer' is toned down a bit next year, it will be fine.

re- Lister ad Rimmer's relationship, it's interesting that despite Cat having his own personal sleeping quarters, Lister still chooses to bunk up with Rimmer when presumably he doesn't have to. In other words, Lister must still get something positive out of their relationship, even if he still finds Rimmer trying at times. He REALLY didn't like being left with Cat for too long in Samsara, lol..

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

For all his faults, Rimmer is mental stimulation for Lister, and not in the way Cat is. Cat isn't stupid, but he's ... a cat. He's not really interested in education or bettering his mind, so anything Lister explains to him kind of goes in one ear and out the other if it doesn't fall within Cat's sort of shallow interests (shallow by human standards - again, he can't be judged by human standards really). With Rimmer, if he disagrees he'll come back with his own POV which IS judged on the same spectrum as Lister's. I see it as the difference between trying to convince your highly intelligent dog about something, and trying to convince your husband who happens to vote for a different political party.

[zara2148.livejournal.com]

I agree that I think a big part of this season was the boys as found family. IVe only just seen all the episodes, so theres probably still some nuances I'm mossing, but one thing i noticed was how much less of a focus there was on longing for things they didnt have. There wasnt a mention of Kochanski from Lister (finally accepting that hes been pretty much marriex to Rimmer?) Rimmer only made a couple of remarks about "beautiful women" and not in a wistful manner. Lister and Rimmer seem to have reached a peace about their situation. And Cat and Kryten, after their focus episodes, are getting there as well.

And I think Officer Rimmer was indicative of some character development on Rimmer's part. That being, hes not in a place of self loathing like he was in Rimmerworld and Me2. He and his clones seem to be getting along fine, not turning on each other or anything. How long that might have lasted is anyones guess. But I think its worth mentioning that its only when a jam accidently MAGNIFIES Rimmer's flaws in the monster amalgamation that it becomes a problem - suggesting that Rimmers flaws are better balanced than they once were.

Also, this is just something I noticed but wanted to mention since I'm probably too late to mention it in the episode reactions (not that in not late to this thread, but its slightly less late), and it still ties into Rimmers character development of this season. But I was just now rewatching lemons, and in the beginning of the episode while Listers reading a textbook for his course, he tells Rimmer how Mozart makes him feel inadequate becaus ehe wrote Twinkle Twinkle Little Star at age 5. And I remembered how Rimmer mentioned that again this in an episode this season, which means that he not only remembered what Lister told him who knows how long later but tried to use it as a way to connect with and impress him. Thats not exactly a tactic I can see an earlier Rimmer using, mainly because of the respect it implies for Lister and how much of a step it is to trying to connect with him over something Lister was interested in (or at least knowledgable about), as opposed to Rimmer trying to bond with Lister over one of his interests such as Risk.

Soorry, this got long.