(no subject)

[beetle-breath.livejournal.com]

Hey, smegheads!

I've got a question regarding Lister's relationship with Kochanski. In the older seasons, Lister & Rimmer often go back and forth about her and it seems like Kochanski had no interest in Lister whatsoever.

But in the episode where the 'nu-Kochanski' is introduced, it's said that they were going out. Which is it? Is there any definitive answer, or were the writers just being forgetful/careless?

Another thing that I can't verify right now, but have a question on anyway. If my memory serves me correctly, in the episode Duct Soup, Kochanski says that her Dave was gay. Is this true, or am I just imaging things?

Comments

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember that Rimmers reaction is looking at it and visually swallowing - so he is not missing the sexual implication of the touch and yes, he doesn't leap back in horror as you would expect due to earlier homophobic comments ::g::
It's like "he is feeling up me, not that git Ace".

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, that is high on my list of "slash ahoy!" scenes. I slahsed these two before I ever saw VII - by the time Blue came around, I just felt vindicated. :)

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

RD was one of the many series/movies I rewatched after discovering that these vague ideas of mine was something called slash and shared by many :-)
I always thought they were a couple, but when I started rewatching on DVD I really thought it was terribly slashy, and I didn't remember the kiss in VII (like Chris, I was trying to forget series VII ::g::). But to me it was always the way the reacted to each other, the obvious caring in the moments when things were too important for bickering, like when Rimmers father "died" or Lister is taken ill.
The scene on the psi-moon and the dream scene made me feel sad more than elated, because of what followed...
But fanfic and making my own editing of things makes it much more easy to enjoy them now.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Ja, Red Dwarf fans are spoiled with innuendo. :) God, Terrorform really is horrid, and I did have to write a fic dealing with Lister's thoughts, because the last bit seems, on the outset, so damn callous - but then when you juxtapose it with how overtly sexual Lister was just before...

As said in your documentary, old married couple. :) Bicker about all things, except when the other person is obviously in deep smeg. I do love that scene in C&P when Lister falls ill, and then in Me Sqaured when Rimmer bares his soul. It's like the first tentative outreaches, and then there's some pulling back later, as there is when you think you've let out too much - but always that reaching out again, in one way or another, until (damn it to hell) the very end of SMAC (but the innuendo that laces that ep up until Rimmer blasts off!).

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think it is almost painful to see the end of that episode. The thing is, Lister is most of the time considering himself a decent fellow, so being so cruel is a bit out of character. Really, I am not surprised that Rimmer decided to ditch them all in Rimmerworld. If he tried to attack the mutant, most likely the ship would have disintegrated anyway. And Lister standing there talking about all they had been through together must have sounded quite hypocritical to Rimmer.
The thing is, Lister coming back to get Rimmer is out of some boyscout "don't leave anyone behind" idea, not because he care at all for Rimmer. Or at least that must be how it looks like for Rimmer. And Rimmer don't understand this boyscout thing, but he does understand doing things for someone you love - the only really noble thing he did so far was to the only person he had ever encountered who cared about him as a person (Holoship). So I think they coming for him in Terrorform ended up meaning nothing to him after their cruel rejection of him.
Of course WE know Lister actually cares, but he has a few lessons to learn, that is clear.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Ja, Rimmer and Lister do not speak the same language. When Rimmer bolted, I bet he was thinking, "Ja, so what have you done for me lately?" while Lister was thinking, "Dumb smegging coward." The thing is, Cat is just as selfish as Rimmer is, but it doesn't seem to bother Lister as much. :p I think it's because Lister knows Rimmer could be more - but again, they never talk. I think Lister and Nirvanah have that in common - they see the good person that Rimmer could be. But only Nirvanah says so, in so many words.

Lister does always go back for Rimmer. Backwards, Terrorform, Rimmerworld - when Cat would happily leave him behind. But our neurotic pile of smeg needs explicit words as well as actions.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

And he was ready to believe the words in Terrorform - and they were taken back. Neurotic or not, I think anyone would have had a bit problems with trusting Lister or anyone else after that. But partly he does, cant help it, poor smeghead, Lister is all he got. And Lister betrays him again and sends him off to a quick and certain death as Ace Rimmer.
I keep thinking of an idea of what might happen that would make them meet again and Lister having to confront what he did. But unfortunately I am a vidder, not a writer ::sigh::

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

I think Lister confronts what he did - he's too emotional for me to believe he just pitches it aside! I like thinking about his dreams after SMAC - I can't believe he had just one dream where he snogged Rimmer, and that was all. ;)

I think he's kinder to ressurected!Rimmer soley for that reason - somehow, trying to make up for what he did to holoRimmer.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Well, I think the eternally optimistic Lister probably tried not to think too hard of it, and if he did tried see it as a good thing, and Kryten really did his best to help him rationalise it. But he can not fool his subconscious ::G::
Of course he kept dreaming. And he was nice to the resurrected Rimmer because he missed HoloRimmer, whether he realised it or not, and couldn't help being nice. Also of course knowing so much more about Rimmer than what he did back when.
But I don't think he ever actually was confronted with what he did, because he had nobody to discuss it with, and Lister was never a person to dwell on uncomfortable things that he couldn't change.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Yep, it was all so much better for resurrected!Rimmer - who didn't go through everything holoRimmer did to deserve that kindness! Gah. :p

Lister doesn't like dwelling on things he can't change, but it was said a few times that he likes to think of himself as a good and moral person, and I can't believe it wouldn't nag at him - especially after meeting resurrected!Rimmer. Maybe the niceness is partially a conscious decision - to try to do something right to make up for what he did before. Even the non-slashers I talk to think there was something very wrong with Lister kicking Rimmer out like that. :p

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

He would certainly not be the first to consider himself good and moral and having to confront the fact that he did something really terrible. But unfortunately the usual way to deal with such things are denial. Subconsciously he feels bad and wants Rimmer back, but I don't think he ever will get around to really facing things unless he met HoloRimmer again - or did something similar he could not get away with.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

...or met the next Rimmer, once holo!Rimmer is dead. I've thought about that for a fic, too - the successor to Rimmer finding holo!Lister, and bringing him to rescue Kochanski. Can we say smeg on a stick?

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Oh, no I am with eviltigerlily here - too, too depressing. I want our Rimmer and Lister, not some alternative versions ::wails::
But as I said, it is easy enough to make HoloRimmer survive and meet Lister again, only I cannot write it :-(

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Ah, you know I dig tEh anGsT!

Yep, it's certainly doable. But I think the depressing one is calling me.

[eviltigerlily.livejournal.com]

I can't really think of a way that doesn't feature Rimmer being dead, which I don't like at all. So I will shut up now.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

I can actually, such a simple solution too. The obvious one, really ;-)