reddwarfslash | Books question

veronica-rich.livejournal.com posting in

*raises hand*

Okay, another question about the novels, specifically the last two. I was reading the IMDB message board for RD and there was a thread on the books - the commenter said "The Last Human" is NOT a sequel to "Backwards," but instead, that each book is that particular writer's sequel to their last joint novel, "Better Than Life."

I post this here for two reasons. One, you guys are the best bunch of discussers (and the only ones I'm familiar with so far) of Red Dwarf, generally. Second, there's an element of possible slashiness here, I suppose. TLH ends with Lister and Kochanski getting busy recreating the human race, Rimmer dead and his son still alive (and somewhere out there, I sure hope somebody's written an OT3 - not a triangle - with Lister/Kochanski/McGruder just on principle *G*). "Backwards" ends with teenage Lister and the Cat escaping a universe where Kryten and Rimmer have been killed, into an alternate dimension where Lister and the Cat had died. (No Kochanski in sight; that was handled at the beginning of the novel.)

Is this true, that each is just a sequel to BTL? Have you ever heard this - is it common knowledge and I'm just the ignoramus? Or is it untrue?

Oh, and if they're each a BTL sequel, I suppose the question becomes, what does this say for each writer's vision of the R/L relationship? Just to keep it more on-topic.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

missflibble.livejournal.com

Indeedy. Although Last Human feels like a continuation of Backwards, check the publishing dates. May be wrong but I believe LH was published before Backwards. They must have had a swift agreement between them what each would cover continuity wise and then just got on with it.

For me, Backwards feels generally a lot darker than Last Human. But read any of Grant's other books (Incompetence is particularly brilliant) and they also have that same black comedy feel. Naylor in my opinion is more about the character development and canon extension than the comedy itself (although he is a funny writer) so you can see how they worked so bloody well together. I think it's a real shame that they went their seperate ways - to resurrect the partnership for the new series would make it a masterpiece. However, Grant is less than keen. In an interview where someone asked him what it was like to see the likes of BTE, he replied 'for me it's like watching your ex wife's second honeymoon video'. Says it all really....

From:

veronica-rich.livejournal.com

I do have one non-RD Grant book I just picked up last weekend (our nearby metropolis has this used bookstore chain that, amazingly has provided about half the RD seasons I bought, as well as two of the RD books), though I haven't started on it yet. (Though I did get all excited seeing it on the shelf - ostensibly my sister has been wanting it, but I told her she'll just have to settle for borrowing mine!)

Which writer, would you say, is more behind the slashy vibe that is L/R? Since you've read all the books and I haven't quite yet. Also, do you feel that one has more of a handle on particular characters over the other, and vice versa?

'for me it's like watching your ex wife's second honeymoon video'

You know, I totally understand that. Nat and I have been writing stories together for probably 12 years now, on and off - it's fanfic, but we've created several original characters within those (and a few others apart from fanfic as well). If we parted ways and only she could legally write about those characters - including the ones I came up with - I know I'd feel bitter and voyeuristic to read those stories, even if they were good. (And I know it's a minority opinion, but while I do enjoy most of BTE, to be honest it ranks just above the second half of Series 7 for me - which is my least favorite part of the show. Still, you know what they say - some things are so good that the crap parts are still better than most of what you find in the mainstream. *G*)

From:

missflibble.livejournal.com

Which writer, would you say, is more behind the slashy vibe that is L/R? Since you've read all the books and I haven't quite yet. Also, do you feel that one has more of a handle on particular characters over the other, and vice versa?

I'd say that Naylor is definitely the slashy force in the partnership. Think about it - series VII and VIII - Rimmer and Lister get closer and closer to one another (character development yada yada, but it happens helluva quick). Hell, in series VIII they almost come off as close friends in the Tank!

I think that Grant likes the darker side of comedy, enjoying the characters sparking off of one another. Naylor's LH smacks a little like fan fiction to me, which is WEIRD seeing as it's alternative canon....

Saying that, I tend to base my fics around the style and approach of the books rather than the show - much darker and more dramatic-reaching in its extension of canon. Most likely cos I can't write comedy for toffee ;-) I wrote one episode for the ill-fated 'Red Dwarf Animated' series and I think I used up all my funny in one 20 minute episode!!!

From:

veronica-rich.livejournal.com

I really enjoyed far too much how happy Lister was to see nano-Rimmer come into the quarters in "Back in the Red." (That scene was also one of the inspirations for mine and Nat's long story we're working on finishing - it's in the way Rimmer approaches him when he walks in. Hopefully soon, you'll see what I mean *G*.) Incidentally, that season is also how I could actually accept an L/K/R OT3 either in fanfic or in the highly unlikely event it ever came to pass in canon. Once Kochanski was relieved of being the Rimmer stand-in, I appreciated her more (although I did like her in S7 despite Naylor's best effort to make her alt!Rimmer). For Naylor doing S8 himself, I thought it was terribly humorous, far more than S7. Seriously, I hated the tone in the latter part of S7.

I don't know if you can write comedy for toffee, but that Ace series is still in my mind even after all these weeks. In fact, when I did my musical Ace-fanmix thing earlier this spring, that story was why I chose a few of the songs I did. I confess I have a bit of a struggle with the end of the series as it stands, with Rimmer's memory and all that, but the entire series was just very good.

(Animated series? Episode? Was this a BBC show or a Web thing? Did you write an actual episode or a fanfic?)

Edited Date: 2010-06-26 08:19 pm (UTC)

From:

missflibble.livejournal.com

that Ace series is still in my mind even after all these weeks. In fact, when I did my musical Ace-fanmix thing earlier this spring, that story was why I chose a few of the songs I did.

You see that right there? That compliment made me smile so wide I think it might fall off my face ;-) Thank you, I'm honoured.

I confess I have a bit of a struggle with the end of the series as it stands, with Rimmer's memory and all that, but the entire series was just very good.

Cos of the 'rock falls, everyone dies' feel? ;-) Meh, I wanted Rimmer's Return to link canon to canon (VIII to BTE) and I didn't think he'd ever be the same again if he was still a hero of sorts, if that makes sense?

Plus...I wrote 'The Prophecy' and am currently chapter planning 'Cosmic Castaway' as a continuation of the Ace Chronicles - where the return of his memories spells a lot of trouble for all involved. I'm in the middle of writing Year 3 of the Ace Chronicles on ff.net (124 Days) - shall I let you know when it's posted in complete form on AO3?

(Animated series? Episode? Was this a BBC show or a Web thing? Did you write an actual episode or a fanfic?)

Haha! A tricky one to answer so bear with me. Started as a fan project but picked up quite a following (including Bobbly Llew himself who tweeted about it!) We got the nod from Grant Naylor productions to continue, as long as we could faithfully prove we weren't going to make any money from it.

Unfortunately, only a pilot and Christmas 2009 episode (which I was script consultant on) has been made so far. I wrote an episode called 'Juno' (hmm familiar? ;-D)

Here's the opening credit sequence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzNiK6t8pHU

From:

veronica-rich.livejournal.com

Edited Date: 2010-06-26 09:17 pm (UTC)

From:

missflibble.livejournal.com

If you're dealing with him actually getting his memories back, I can handle that. It just - I dunno, it had a "Bobby Ewing in the shower" feel to it, and I was all "Boo! He doesn't get to forget all that!" (Don't hit me! *G*) But then I read the story with the soothsayer in the marketplace after the series and it gave me all kinds of hope that it wasn't over. :-)

LOL! Now that did make me giggle. Gah, I can't win. ^__^ I get some feedback saying it was great I returned everything to canon and others who ask me to write follow-ups where he should remember. Hmmm... now I'm TOTALLY confused how I should leave the ending of Cosmic Castaway... ;-)

If you're actually posting, I would definitely take a link to that on ff.net if you wouldn't mind. (Yeah, I'm that eager to read more of it, LOL)

Of course! It's incomplete so as long as my slow writing processes don't piss you off then feel free to have a read: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5908333/1/124_Days I always appreciate your feedback (damn good writer as you are).

Yeah I'm a shameless self-promotion whore.

It's ok, I am too ;-) I was about to say submit it via the official site but it appears to have been removed. Hmm...might speak volumes about their decision on whether to continue right now! :-S

Oh, and the opening sequence is adorable! Who drew that??

Ahh now that would be the lovely Kevin - http://www.karcreat.com/

From:

veronica-rich.livejournal.com

You know how writing is. You can't please everyone and yourself simultaneously, LOL.

Maybe it's been removed because there are going to be more series with real actual actor bodies involved? Hee! (I'm of two minds about that - do I want more series? I kind of think I do. But I admit I'm trepidatious about watching beloved characters get long in the tooth IF their characterization doesn't progress along with that. Like the Rimmer in BTE was more like early-seasons Rimmer and less like post-Rimmerworld Rimmer. If that makes sense. Just IMO.)

From:

missflibble.livejournal.com

But I admit I'm trepidatious about watching beloved characters get long in the tooth IF their characterization doesn't progress along with that. Like the Rimmer in BTE was more like early-seasons Rimmer and less like post-Rimmerworld Rimmer. If that makes sense. Just IMO

Oh no, I agree whole-heartedly. I think I was slightly disappointed with BTE with the lack of comedy, and Rimmer's character was strangely jarring. Hey ho. Here's hoping they come up with a winner when they start filming...

From:

fantasysci5.livejournal.com

You've just crystalized something I was trying to figure out about which style I liked. Though comedy and even character development is nice, I just love the dark angst in anything.

So...thank you.

From:

dauphkantus.livejournal.com

*cuts in the long-dead conversation in the middle, since she'd got lost before the end*

Not to forget Ed Bye either! *toothy grin*

"I was so tempted to make them do it again." 8D (Blue Kiss special thingy)

From:

veronica-rich.livejournal.com

It's probably a good thing they didn't have one of those women directing them. "Fourth take! Christ Jesus, aren't you two EVER going to get this right??"

(The best thing about that scene isn't so much the kiss, since - well, let's face it, it looks kind of forced because - well, let's face it, it IS kind of forced. It's the two minutes prior of the flirting and the cooing and the coyness, NONE of which looks nearly as forced. *BG*)

From:

dauphkantus.livejournal.com

Chris: "It was one of those things where, dare I say it, um, the foreplay was more exciting than the actual event... where have we heard that before?"

xDD