Last Woman?

[lordvalerymimes.livejournal.com]

I had a shower thought while I was getting ready this morning. I wonder how different the general fan population response to Lister/Rimmer shipping would be, if Lister were a female.

Imagine the show is still exactly the same, the same plots, the same scripts (with a few modifications here and there for pronouns obviously), but Lister is played by a woman, and is a female character. How different, do you think the responses of the general fandom would be, to the idea of the two characters becoming romantic with one another? I'm sure there would still be naysayers and those who couldn't get past Lister's slobbiness and the surface dislike the characters have for one another, but I have a feeling that loads more people would be champing at the bit to see the two of them get together, and hoping that the ultimate end of the show would involve the two of them realizing that they can be happily ever after together.

Imagine how differently the state-of-the art sarnie scene would read to an average heterosexual crowd, if Lister had been a woman instead of a man. I doubt you'd have anyone saying that we were "reaching" to imply some sexual overtones in Rimmer's comparison. Not to mention Lister pining for Rimmer in series VII. Or the love that High Lister and Rimmer express for one another in Demons and Angels.

My thought is, if you would be willing to except romance between two characters if they were of opposite genders, then probably the only reason why you're NOT ok with romance happening between the two of them, is because they're of the same gender. As someone wisely said on Tumblr, it's not about making everything gay, it's about not having heterosexuality be the default.

Comments

[janamelie.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to imagine the show playing out as you describe. Assuming that Lister and Rimmer are still bunkmates - which they would have to be for the show to work - presumably there would have been some exposition at some stage explaining how in the future bunkmates of different genders is no longer an issue.

Even if their relationship was just as initially antagonistic, there is no way in hell that people wouldn't read it as incorporating sexual if not romantic attraction regardless of whether their canon orientations matched that. The "Why are they still sharing a room?" questions would be asked a lot louder than they are now. People would be convinced that whichever was the male had masturbated at the thought of his bunkmate at least once because he's a man and that's what men do, right?

Equally, if the woman was the uptight one she'd be assumed to be sex-starved and just in need of a good shag. I'm talking about fan perceptions here, not how Rob and Doug might write it.

As I wrote that I got more and more depressed at how rigid our notions of gender and orientation are. Heteronormativity is a plague. :(

[veronica-rich.livejournal.com]

Well, heteronormativity is the easiest way to breed more workers. That's why it's so attractive to those in charge of laws, media, society, industry, etc.

[lordvalerymimes.livejournal.com]

I've been trying to imagine how Bodyswap would play out with a female Lister, that's the main problematic episode in terms of it being difficult to translate with Lister as a different gender. Because Lister and Rimmer are presented as both "straight guys" on the show, there's no real non-con overtones to the idea of them swapping bodies with one another. If Rimmer is straight, and Lister is also a straight female, suddenly them swapping bodies isn't just about Rimmer getting to eat berliners and smoke cigars. The moment where Rimmer had Kochanski's breast on his body and was feeling it up, was icky enough. Rimmer as he's written in those early series, especially if some deleted scenes are taken into account, certainly had a bit of a screwed up attitude towards women and their bodies. The bunkroom discussion Lister and Rimmer have prior to deciding to do the body swapping would have been much different.

I just thought of how different Rimmer pretending to be Kochanski in Balance of Power would be, if we're assuming that Kochanski would be a male officer in this female-Lister AU. I could easily see Rimmer in those early days being written to take advantage of the situation and try to get into female-Lister's pants while disguised as the man she has an unrequited crush on.

Ugh, you're right Janamelie, the more you think about how differently the show probably would have played out, just with Lister being a female instead of a male, is pretty damned grim in terms of laying bare how we perceive the different genders and how they relate to one another, especially in a general pop-culture sense.