An Ace discussion.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Nessa mentioned pulling this out into a new thread, and I think it's a dandy idea.

We see four Aces in Red Dwarf. We see DJ-Ace, who is supposed to be the original, or one very like the original. We see Emohawk-Ace, who is Rimmer with his negativity sucked away. We see Reformed!Ace, who is a Rimmer much like our Rimmer after some time as Ace. And, of course, we see our Rimmer as Ace.

Here are some of my rambling thoughts.

The first Ace was meant to be The Man, the Marty Stu to end all Stus. And like any good Stu/Sue, a lot of people find him to be a real pain in the ass. He's brave and heroic, but he's also self-centered, pompous, and pretty shallow.

The second Ace was our Ace without his negativity. It's important, for me, to note that this is Rimmer before the events of Rimmerworld and Out Of Time, which I think were events that fundamentally changed Rimmer. The Emohawk could suck away Rimmer's negativity, but it could not give him anything he didn't have - like a general respect for life and consideration for others. He was kind to Lister, yes, but he was pretty darn quick to jump onto the idea of killing the Cat without his knowledge.

The third Ace was, in many ways, the best of the lot. He was all heroic and shit, but he was also kinder and more understanding, both of Lister and of Rimmer. He didn't bowl Lister over; he befriended him. It's as if his time as a soft-light hologram, his humiliation, and the lousy things he did all gave him a past that tempered the whole Ace-ness, making him a better person than Ace was.

And, of course, our Ace. I like to speculate on what happens to him, but it's rarely good. The Ace who recruited him abandoned Lister, Kryten, and Cat to die, and was trying to atone for that. Our Rimmer got pushed into the Ace thing by Lister, and I can't help but think that will affect what kind of Ace he becomes, and how he passes on the role (hence the fic I'm writing).

Comment? Add? Disagree heavily?

Comments

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Hmm, that's a very interesting point about self-preservation. Yes, I think there's a difference between facing fear and not having it at all.

But another thing - for Ace, it seems like there's no absolute that's driving him. The Better Good Of The Universe is pretty ambiguous. Each of the girls he rescues is just another girl. What's really driving him? For the Thrid Rimmer, we have an answer (even if they only put it in the DVD - bastiges). And that brings up what it would be for our Rimmer. I've played, in fics, with the idea that it's some right to return to the 'Bug, as a hero rather than as a prodigal son.

[day221b.livejournal.com]

And that brings up what it would be for our Rimmer. I've played, in fics, with the idea that it's some right to return to the 'Bug, as a hero rather than as a prodigal son.

Which I've enjoyed. In the first series, he said he thought of himself as a goodie, even when his actions tended not to be so good. I really don't know what his driving force was...except that Lister tricked/urged him. Hmm. It makes me think that he would want to return one day, to go home, but yeah as I one of your fics illustrated, I don't think he would, at least not alive anyway. I don't think its as much pride, as the hatred of the failure inside himself that wouldn't let Rimmer go home.

I do know that he really did seem to "get it" in the first ep of Series VII. That JFK was both a good man and a bad man. Where Lister was trying to categorize him as either good or bad, Rimmer saw both and accepted it. Seems there's hope yet.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Ja, he's really the voice of reason in Tikka; I like Tikka for that reason. It really shows how RW/OOT changed him.

[cyber-moggy.livejournal.com]

I think that our Rimmer would have to find his motivation for constantly saving the universe during his initial stages as Ace. If he doesn't find one, I can easily see him either being the final link in the chain, or searching for a Rimmer who *already* has some kind of motivation for endlessly saving the universe.

I don't think that the initial motivation for him leaving would be good enough for him to keep it up. I mean, does the universe *really* need an Ace? What would happen if there wasn't always one there?

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Ja, that's something I've struggled with. SMAC-Ace says that the universe needs someone to be handsome and magnificent, but why? You sacrifice a lot to be that person, for no good reason that I can see. But I think it's more a matter of what's keeping him away from Starbug than what's making him Ace. Pride (in layers that rival a torte) will keep him away once he's made the step, and if he's not on Starbug, he pretty much has to be Ace.

[cyber-moggy.livejournal.com]

I don't know about that - if he finds somebody (or several somebodies) who like him enough for himself, instead of for the image, I can imagine him abandoning the whole caper and settling down in some community or other. I mean, there are more options out there in the multiverse for him than just being Ace.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

Ah, I think Lister agrees with him though. That's probably part of why he pushes - nay - forces Rimmer to go through with it in SMAC. For Lister, this isn't just a chance for Rimmer to have the life of his dreams, it's a great calling; a duty. Rimmer would, no doubt, see that as some warped romantic ideal, which it may or may not be. But Lister believes in it.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Or at least he like to think so... His reasons for wanting Rimmer to go may be much more complicated than that.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

Of course it is; don't get me wrong. That's only part of it.