An Ace discussion.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Nessa mentioned pulling this out into a new thread, and I think it's a dandy idea.

We see four Aces in Red Dwarf. We see DJ-Ace, who is supposed to be the original, or one very like the original. We see Emohawk-Ace, who is Rimmer with his negativity sucked away. We see Reformed!Ace, who is a Rimmer much like our Rimmer after some time as Ace. And, of course, we see our Rimmer as Ace.

Here are some of my rambling thoughts.

The first Ace was meant to be The Man, the Marty Stu to end all Stus. And like any good Stu/Sue, a lot of people find him to be a real pain in the ass. He's brave and heroic, but he's also self-centered, pompous, and pretty shallow.

The second Ace was our Ace without his negativity. It's important, for me, to note that this is Rimmer before the events of Rimmerworld and Out Of Time, which I think were events that fundamentally changed Rimmer. The Emohawk could suck away Rimmer's negativity, but it could not give him anything he didn't have - like a general respect for life and consideration for others. He was kind to Lister, yes, but he was pretty darn quick to jump onto the idea of killing the Cat without his knowledge.

The third Ace was, in many ways, the best of the lot. He was all heroic and shit, but he was also kinder and more understanding, both of Lister and of Rimmer. He didn't bowl Lister over; he befriended him. It's as if his time as a soft-light hologram, his humiliation, and the lousy things he did all gave him a past that tempered the whole Ace-ness, making him a better person than Ace was.

And, of course, our Ace. I like to speculate on what happens to him, but it's rarely good. The Ace who recruited him abandoned Lister, Kryten, and Cat to die, and was trying to atone for that. Our Rimmer got pushed into the Ace thing by Lister, and I can't help but think that will affect what kind of Ace he becomes, and how he passes on the role (hence the fic I'm writing).

Comment? Add? Disagree heavily?

Comments

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

But he set it all up on the assumption that Rimmer would stand up for Lister and fight the knight, and not just say, "Oh, don't know the smegger - check the midsection, maybe?" That would have been the old-Rimmer 'out.' After all, Lister-as-knight made it clear that his quarrel was with Lister.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

I may have to rewatch again, but as I remember it the knight attacks him and leave him no choice but to defend himself.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

He could run, though. Running and/or hiding would be the usual Rimmerine reactions, but AFAIR he doesn't even try.

[kahvi.livejournal.com]

According to the script at: http://www.reddwarf.nildram.co.uk/txt/stoke.html

KING'S KNIGHT I bid you good day, my lord. I come in search of the knave called 'Lister of Smeg'.

RIMMER

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According to the script at: http://www.reddwarf.nildram.co.uk/txt/stoke.html

KING'S KNIGHT I bid you good day, my lord. I come in search of the knave called 'Lister of Smeg'.

RIMMER <noticing the knight's large sword> Now wait a minute, old friend, let's just stay calm, shall we?

KING'S KNIGHT Are you one of his household?

RIMMER Errr, in a manner of speaking...

KING'S KNIGHT Then prepare to die! <Chivalrously , the knight tosses RIMMER a sword with which to defend himself. Unprepared, RIMMER catches it blade first and holds it awkwardly out in front of him. Without wasting any further time, the knight attacks RIMMER, and they begin to fight.

Seems to me like he had plenty of time to run...

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Heh - what she said.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Not without turning his back on a man with a very big sword who might be faster than him. And Listers idea was not to take the chance on him running by leaving him with to easy an out. It was to force him into fighting and hoping he would conclude that he actually could be Ace. Rimmer would fight for one thing always - self-preservation.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Rimmer would fight for one thing always - self-preservation.

But I think this really shows that it's no longer the case. Why didn't he just say, "No, I don't know Lister?" Worth a shot, after all! But he stands up for Lister.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

IIRC, he says he's looking for Lister of Smeg, and asks if Rimmer's of his household. He waits for Rimmer to answer that he is, and then tosses the sword at him and readies to attack. Plenty of room for Rimmer to run from it...