(no subject)

[beetle-breath.livejournal.com]

Hey, smegheads!

I've got a question regarding Lister's relationship with Kochanski. In the older seasons, Lister & Rimmer often go back and forth about her and it seems like Kochanski had no interest in Lister whatsoever.

But in the episode where the 'nu-Kochanski' is introduced, it's said that they were going out. Which is it? Is there any definitive answer, or were the writers just being forgetful/careless?

Another thing that I can't verify right now, but have a question on anyway. If my memory serves me correctly, in the episode Duct Soup, Kochanski says that her Dave was gay. Is this true, or am I just imaging things?

Comments

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Welcome to Red Dwarf continuity. Again.

In the early episodes, Lister lusted after Kochanski without telling her anything. By the time you get to VI (Psirens), the story has changed to Lister having dated Kochanski for three weeks, according to Kryten (which is also what the books say). It's possible for alternate-Lister to have dated Kochanski without our Lister having done so, so it's not Ouroborus that kills continuity, IMO.

In Duct Soup, Kochanski says her Dave was gay, then says she was kidding shortly after.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

And Lister gets more than a little defensive at that point, I will just note. :)

[beetle-breath.livejournal.com]

I have that episode now (legally, I might add) so I'll have to watch it for that, then.

(And that long embrace he gave Rimmer at the end of Stoke Me a Kipper? Highly suspicious.)

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

If we're going to tally up the Highly Suspicious Moments, we'll be here all night! But I think this is one of the slashiest moments - *points to icon* Damn SMAC.

[beetle-breath.livejournal.com]

That whole episode was full of Highly Suspicious Moments. No wonder Lister dreamed of Rimmer. X3

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

And, as Nessa pointed out, Lister does not believe that you dream of someone you don't feel something for...

[beetle-breath.livejournal.com]

He doesn't need to snoop about in someone's dream recorder either, for this one.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

I wonder what a comprehensive dream recorder scan would show us.

[beetle-breath.livejournal.com]

OOooh, lots of sex, I'm sure. With or without Rimmer.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

*snrk* Rimmer involved in most, I'm sure. Kryten must be getting annoyed about washing his sheets. Maybe that's why he resents Kochanski - ja, Rimmer doesn't have as many in-and-out bits, but he has more than enough!

[beetle-breath.livejournal.com]

*dies* But I thought Kryten liked doing laundry...

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Just a digression for looking at your icon - wasn't that an overtly sexual way to touch someone to show them you loved them as a mate? Wouldn't an arm around the shoulder or the back, or a hug, be more natural?
Of course slashers knows that he could not resist the idea of grabbing the inside of Rimmers thighs ::g::
I still wonder why that was done like that in the show - don't think I heard any explanations for it.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Ja, that is so sexual. I mean, even comparing the way Kryten put his hand on Rimmer's leg to the way Lister did...

If I want to comfort and reassure someone platonically, I don't leap right to putting my hand on his or her inner thigh. And Rimmer doesn't exactly leap back in disgust. More of a bemused, "Hey, he likes me enough to feel me up?" expression.

(I also just love the juxtaposition of their hands in that cap.)

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember that Rimmers reaction is looking at it and visually swallowing - so he is not missing the sexual implication of the touch and yes, he doesn't leap back in horror as you would expect due to earlier homophobic comments ::g::
It's like "he is feeling up me, not that git Ace".

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

Didn't they change this as early as season II? When they all go back through the stasis leak and Kochanski has married a version of Lister? I think it was said there that our Lister had dated her.
And I seem to remember comments in the documentary that the writers thought it would be a bit too silly to have Lister pine after someone he had hardly talked to for season after season, so they decided to change that and made them having dated for three weeks. This was specifically mentioned as an example of where they decided to not care about continuity.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Hrm, I don't remember a reference to them having dated in Stasis Leak, but I don't have II with me.

True dat. But then he stops pining for her (Camille doesn't turn into her, for one), and then kinda sorta pines for her again (he has her photo with him on Starbug in VI, and the Psirens take her form), then he forgets about her again until she comes aboard...

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

I am pretty sure that the writers said that already in season II they decided that he should have done more than lusting for her. At some point he talks about Kochancki breaking up with him, but maybe that was later, though I have a feeling that was II as well.
I think Camille can be easily explained - she didn't turn into a real person. If she did turn into a real person that knew the guy, the fantasy would be disturbed by whatever history he had with that woman and the sneaking knowledge that this was not really her. So Camille would take all the notions a person have of ideal beauty and companionship and turn that into an imaginary person.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

she didn't turn into a real person

But she did turn into the Cat...

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

That is easy - there was nothing else to work on the Cats mind ;-)

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

It does make me think, though - you have a good point. Sure, the Cat thinks he's lovely, but if he saw himself, then there would be someone just as lovely as him in existance - and that just would not do! I'd think a pretty, vacuous woman who thinks he is far prettier than she would be more Camille-ish...

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

But the point of Camille is to conjure up a perfect companion, someone that you really want to be with not just in a sexual way, and the only person the Cat really wants to have around is himself.

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Mm, but I still think it would muck with his self-esteem to have someone as beautiful as himself around. In BTL in the book, he has bosomy Amazons to cater to his whims, and that struck me as a good Cat fantasy.

[nessaancalime.livejournal.com]

So Lister should have been seeing Kochancki or a nicer version of Rimmer ::G:: And Cat would not really want to have himself around. So what is Camille doing wrong? And why are they still all so happy with what they see?

[roadstergal.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I think I need to write a Camille-POV fic... maybe she was a lousy pleasure-GELF. :)

[eviltigerlily.livejournal.com]

They changed that bit of continuity for the first novel, which came about after II. The earliest it's mentioned in the series is IV - DNA.